Scifi story idea.

Maybe the crew could just try to meddle with the computer handling the growth of the bodies in the attempt to destroy the clones, but since there were several safety protocols, they ended up just shrinking the clones or whatever, like they zeroed all the parameters or something.
 
Aman Onfy Mous said:
A collection of electrical signals in the brain, but yes, a character should not be defined by their body.
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The electrical signals in the brain are produced by the physical brain and the specific wiring that defines the mind of a character.
The brain is part of the body.

Aman Onfy Mous said:
If you had an accident and had to be transferred to a replacement body, I suspect you would not be OK with them declaring you a new person, taking all your possessions, and declaring you no longer an adult, so you can't drive or make decisions for yourself.
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As far as I know, that's not possible yet.
If that becomes possible, the very definition of age might change.

It could also be that the replacement is considered a different person.
After all, it would be possible to download the given mind into many bodies.

Aman Onfy Mous said:
I was not exaggerating when I said that actually enforcing this would require a content purge from CHYOA
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I don't see what you're referring to. If you see such content, please report it.
 
gene.sis said:
I don't see what you're referring to. If you see such content, please report it.
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I find myself in a dilemma. If I were to describe this content, it could be deleted under a rule interpretation that I believe is wrong (not that my opinion will change enforcement, for which I have no control), and wrong in a way that does nothing to prevent CSM or protect the site. Or maybe the interpretation would be changed, once it was made clear how absurd the results could be. I decided earlier not to take that risk when I deleted my examples from a prior reply. I used the Emperor Palpatine example because I figured there was minimal risk of anyone ever actually writing such a storyline...though rule 34 says that surely someone, somewhere has already done so. Anyway, I'll have to think about this.

gene.sis said:
As far as I know, that's not possible yet.
If that becomes possible, the very definition of age might change.
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That is the point! This is a site full of magic and scifi stories. It includes a huge number of story worlds/universes where a body's age of existence does not match its physical maturity, IE a fully mature, adult body that is created quickly, either through technology or magic, creating completely unnecessary conflicts around this particular part of the CSM rule because the rule is designed for what is possible in the real world, while CHYOA's stories largely take place outside the real world.
 
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gene.sis said:
If a reviewed chapter violates the rules, it gets locked and the author gets the chance to fix it.
I haven't had a case yet where it was impossible to fix such issues. (Sometimes it was just bad wording or having too detailed descriptions of the process.)
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Fine, let's do examples then.

In Star Trek, the teleporters do not actually teleport you. They destroy your body while creating a "pattern" record (including brain in its current state), then send that pattern to another location where a new copy is built, molecule by molecule, after which even the original pattern is destroyed (after the 8 minute buffer period). While there is one source that I know of that says otherwise, the general consensus, supported by numerous in-canon episodes and stories, is that the original is destroyed, and a new person is created. Star Trek can actually be very dystopian if you take it too seriously.

There are several hundred stories with Star Trek characters (probably more that my quick search didn't find). Would not all of these stories violate the rule, unless they explicitly explain that they use a non-canon form of teleporter system?

There are a much smaller number of stories based on Netflix's Altered Carbon, but since that entire franchise is literally based on a violation of this rule, I assume they would get deleted unless it was made VERY clear that anyone and everyone involved was wearing a properly aged clone sleeve or resleeved into an existing person's sleeve, rather than into a synth sleeve (as the VAST majority are, for cost reasons). Canonically, this would make no sense, unless virtually every character was a Meth or original person. What about the AIs? Poor Poe...

What about Nauto's shadow clones? I can't come up with a disclaimer that gets around that one. I assume any chapter that uses them would need that content removed.

There are any number of genie stories where the genie creates a duplicate so that they can have a threesome. I assume those would have to be removed, or they'd have to clearly explain that the duplicate is a real person, with an entire real history that they just created for the purpose of this one threesome, and then later destroyed.

There are a ton of "you get godly powers" stories where the protagonist simply creates a companion for themselves, usually with no backstory or any indication of prior existence. I assume those chapters would need to be changed to include language indicating that these new people have existed for 18 years. I think in many cases that would not work, so those would need to be deleted.

The vast majority of isekai stories (regular person becomes adventurer in a new world) have the protagonist die, then their consciousness is put into a new body created at that instant by a goddess of some type. I assume these would have to be changed to indicate that that body was NOT just created, but rather that they are now displacing a person who previously lived in that body for 18 or more years.

The vast majority of stories where the protagonist "enters" a video game would probably need to be removed. Virtually all the NPCs they go around having adult situations with would only have existed for a few years, even if you treat their existence as starting at the date the programmer created them, rather than the date the specific install of the game was created. Even if you ignore that, in almost every case the protagonist goes through a character creation process, so the protagonist's body is brand new, even if the game is older than 18 years. I suspect most of these would have to be deleted, unless you add some fairly ridiculous boiler plate about character creation including an 18 year stasis period for no real reason.

etc etc etc.

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[EDIT] That doesn't even get into the VAST amount of stories that would be questionable, rather than explicit violations under this rule, which could create constant uncertainty. When you use Master PC to give someone a new body...is it a new body? How much change is required to make a body actually new? Is that just a turn of phrase?

What about your story from your signature? Is the brunette from the dream, who only seems to exist for short periods, even real? If real, does she violate the rule? The story indicates that, at least while she exists, everyone else seems to remember the fake reality as history...but if that replacement reality only existed for a day, then are their 18+ year old memories real?

What about Dragon Ball? The inhabitants seem to be constantly vaporized then wished back to life. Are those new bodies? The old bodies were definitely destroyed, and so far as I'm aware there is no explanation of if their old bodies are un-vaporized or if everyone is just wished into existence anew. What about fusions? They're two existing people, but the combination they create did not exist until just then.

Maybe it's fine, or maybe every single reality-alteration story becomes a potential philosophy argument under this rule. Why? What purpose does this actually serve? I don't think many people on this site understand how this rule is being interpreted, since it's not actually stated outside this thread, but if they WERE, would it create a significant chilling effect as people simply avoided entire topic areas for fear of maybe running into this rule, even though their content is otherwise non-objectionable? Then there are all the people who don't even read the rules. The vast majority, I believe, write their stories based on a sort of "general understanding" of what CSM is, and everyone knows to avoid it...but I guarantee you that virtually no one is including this interpretation of CSM in that general understanding.
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I assume I'll get some sort of point-by-point rebuttal. You seem to like to do that (I like to do that too, so fist-bump.gif). Maybe every one of these can be hunted down and fixed, though I suspect some can't. Why do it, though? The massive, ongoing effort, with completely legal, innocent (well, maybe not innocent), non-CSM stories constantly getting requirements to go through unnecessary edits, even when the characters have adult minds in newly created but fully adult bodies...why? What is being gained by this? There was never any risk of these being seen as CSM. Adult minds in brand new, but otherwise adult, bodies is widely accepted throughout real-life modern digital and literary culture, with no controversy. I don't see any additional legal protection provided by this rule. I get trying to protect the site, and I get being broad to cover all bases, but this is needlessly broad, and I don't see the benefit.

/not legal advice
 
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None of these need to elaborate on (and most need not even mention) the actual creation of the characters. It is an issue in the OP because producing the bodies is a major plot point and it is explicitly given that they would not have chronologically existed for 18 years when they appear in erotic contexts. When reviewing a story, moderators are trying to justify approving it, not declining it; generally speaking, some obscure trivia from the source material will not render a story unacceptable. However, if you went into detail about how the characters have only physically existed for a few minutes, you aren't giving your reviewer much choice.
 
insertnamehere said:
None of these need to elaborate on (and most need not even mention) the actual creation of the characters. It is an issue in the OP because producing the bodies is a major plot point and it is explicitly given that they would not have chronologically existed for 18 years when they appear in erotic contexts. When reviewing a story, moderators are trying to justify approving it, not declining it; generally speaking, some obscure trivia from the source material will not render a story unacceptable. However, if you went into detail about how the characters have only physically existed for a few minutes, you aren't giving your reviewer much choice.
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I don't know that that is the standard, though it's hard to tell because none of this is actually in the rules. Were it to BE in the rules, I assume there would need to be an addition to the canon reference standard disclaimer to cover a handful of these situations.

Assuming for a moment that that is the standard, then I disagree that most do not need to reference the creation of the bodies to the extent the OP does. The majority of the examples--they are ONLY examples, so more obviously exist--have new character/body creation quite explicitly depicted, likely far more explicitly that the OP has described.

Also, the fact that in some cases the authors don't NEED to elaborate on it doesn't change the fact that authors HAVE been, and that it's widespread and ongoing, in my opinion because the rule is vague and overbroad to a point where people don't have any idea about how it's apparently supposed to be interpreted.
 
Even though Fanfiction might be based on the original materials lore, it doesn't mean that it has to feature every single detail.
It wouldn't even be possible as there might be contradicting information given in different parts of the material the Fanfiction is based on.
(That might happen due to different content producers or inconsistencies just because the content producers think it doesn't matter.)

Aman Onfy Mous said:
In Star Trek, the teleporters do not actually teleport you. They destroy your body while creating a "pattern" record (including brain in its current state), then send that pattern to another location where a new copy is built, molecule by molecule, after which even the original pattern is destroyed (after the 8 minute buffer period). While there is one source that I know of that says otherwise, the general consensus, supported by numerous in-canon episodes and stories, is that the original is destroyed, and a new person is created. Star Trek can actually be very dystopian if you take it too seriously.
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I'm not familiar with the process but building up the character at the new location seems unlikely. Even assuming that it is (easily) possible to change the atoms surrounding the teleportation destination (i.e. breaking atoms into their components and making different atoms from it,) you would most likely notice an influx of molecules from all directions as a body has a way higher density than air. In the same way, there would be kind of an explosion at the point of origin.
(From quick research, it seems that the body gets turned into energy and is sent to the destination before being turned into the same body again. So it's basically the same body and not a new one. As this might take some seconds, the character might be technically dead before getting reanimated.)

Fanfiction is transformative, so you're not obliged to use every piece of the lore.
So stating that a character in the Star Trek universe got teleported before being depicted in an erotic context doesn't violate the rules at all.

It would be different if you specifically describe a process that builds/grows a completely new body at the destination location from scratch.

Aman Onfy Mous said:
anyone and everyone involved was wearing a properly aged clone sleeve or resleeved into an existing person's sleeve
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If "properly" refers to a body that already existed for 18 years, an adult mind can slip in and have fun without any issues.

Aman Onfy Mous said:
The vast majority of stories where the protagonist "enters" a video game would probably need to be removed.
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A video game is basically a universe of its own. It has its own timeline that has nothing to do with the moment when the programmer finished it. If you close a game and open it a day later, you're a day older but the characters in the game aren't. If you meet a new character in a game, they already existed in the game's universe. If you click on sleep for 8 hours, the time progresses and the character in the game ages 8 hours while you only age a few seconds.

Aman Onfy Mous said:
The majority of the examples--they are ONLY examples, so more obviously exist--have new character/body creation quite explicitly depicted, likely far more explicitly that the OP has described.
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The OP stated "freshly printed clone replica" and not "thoroughly cultivated clone bodies."

If you still want to do some genetic reconstructions, you can even do that in the last days before they are meant to be taken over.
 
Meh. Deleting all this. I'm spending way too much time trying to fix a rule that I don't actually care about. I think it's ridiculous, and that, as written (or NOT written), no one will even know it exists, but it's actually best that way, since implementing it would be terrible. Either way, it doesn't even come close to affecting the kind of story I write, so...whatever. I'm going to go write more chapters that I'll never publish.
 
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Aman Onfy Mous said:
I don't know that that is the standard, though it's hard to tell because none of this is actually in the rules.
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It's not a rule, it's logic. A story can't be considered rule-breaking based on a piece of information that the reviewer does not even know to check. For example, suppose that in your story, there is a scene where our heroes take a bus, and you briefly describe someone getting a blowjob in the back of that bus. In your notes, which you store offline, you state that this character is not a human but actually a Hyooman, which is a different species, and in your notes about Hyoomans you specify that they are too dumb to pass the Harkness test. Should a moderator be obligated to reject your story, then? Of course not. Regardless of what the rule states, it cannot be enforced in this scenario. That does not invalidate declining stories that clearly depict bestiality.
 
Impregmaniac said:
To put the physical age ruling to one side for a moment, what exactly is OP asking about?
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I think that they wanted feedback on their idea of setting up a two tiered system using cloning on a distant colony. An idea that could work within listed rules so long as the writer makes it abundantly clear that there are some major time skips.
The way that I would do it would look something like this:
1) start on earth a majority of the settlers have their consciences uploaded to a database and are placed in storage for the journey. These are the people who are useful to a society but not necessarily for space travel.
2)over years of travel the crew live as normal.
3) as the crew nears arrival they worry about their place in this new society.
4) one (or more) decides that they need some leg up and so they irreparably sabotage the clone vats
5) deal with immediate fallout
6) timeskip approx 20yrs
7) describe what this new society looks like
8) sex
 
Okay...

So after establishing that the clone bodies have existed for minimum 18 years, by whatever means necessary, I understand that the bodies will also be modded to fit whatever the new planet's conditions will be, and the service crew descendants will be making use of that so that the settler crew will be physically weaker than them. And after that, there's the ET contact bit that wasn't really explained.

I have two ways that this could go.

1) Keep the drama in the ship. Make the story about the internal conflict between the descendants and the settler clones. Clone uprising by way of numbers? Jealousy among one descendant's harem of clones murders another? Blondes vs Brunettes? The destination is not as important to the story, but the things happening on the way there is.

2) Establish that the harem kingdom thing has already happened or failed, and the ship has arrived on the new habitable planet. After long-range scanners have already decided on what the best mods for said planet is, the settlers emerge from their pods as adults, and have to explore their new environment and how their new traits will help them. Jungle area? Prehensile tails for mobility and "dexterity". Ocean planet? Enlarged lungs and oral capacity. Desert planet? Well... women already have built in fluid containers.

That's my two cents about it anway.

Hope that helps OP!
 
If there was enough travel time, there could have been many generations of the crew that led to physical changes due to the hard work and the space radiation.
So they might already be stronger than the settlers.
I could also imagine that their language changed significantly over the years, so the crew and the settlers might not understand each other completely.
 
I like this idea. It has a lot of potential. Go for it. I don’t think it breaks the rules as long as the crew is all adult when they get uploaded and the bodies are adult.
 
I have been reading the comments though I have not replied. I'll admit I was a little surprised that it might be considered a breach of rules. The film 6th day and more recently the series Westworld are mainstream and featured clones being grown rapidly and consciousness being transferred into them and still being considered adult and even having sexual relations so I assumed it was an accepted sci-fi trope. I'm not wedded enough to a plot point to argue against the prevailing opinion.

There were a couple of very good suggestions for a change that would remove the issue and on reflection simply using a 3d printer or nanites or some other invented tech to rewrite existing bodies transported in stasis would be a less controversial method of achieving the same end result.

Thank you everyone who provided feedback on the story idea.
 
android1966 said:
I have been reading the comments though I have not replied. I'll admit I was a little surprised that it might be considered a breach of rules. The film 6th day and more recently the series Westworld are mainstream and featured clones being grown rapidly and consciousness being transferred into them and still being considered adult and even having sexual relations so I assumed it was an accepted sci-fi trope. I'm not wedded enough to a plot point to argue against the prevailing opinion.
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It's not like that. It's not that it is an accepted trope or not.
If you think about it, mainstream entertainment products have (had?) quite a little bit more freedom on a lot of matters that are strictly regulated here.

Have you ever seen the movie The Lover?
Or this one.
Or these 1&2.

Just a few examples off the top of my head.
The list could be endless. Some of these movies gave me a hard-on, some made me uncomfortable, and some did both.
Also depending on who was sitting next to me...

Mainstream movies can have incest, rape, underage sex, and probably even bestiality (can't think of an example of that, but I'm sure there is one of that too) and get away with it.
Mostly.

Why is that?
All that gets projected in a cinema is art, despite its quality.
All we write here is pornography, again despite its quality.

They go by two different handbooks.
Still.
 
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