Why can't you rate your own chapters?

I am 100% against this. I feel that the "Like" button:
Allows readers to quickly express a general positive feeling about a chapter, rather than having to say something vapid in the comments.
Allows readers to quickly find which chapters have recieved the most positive support, rather than taking a gamble on chapters with high comments, which could be anything from "This is great." to "Dear god I hope your keyboard burns and you are barred from writing forever."
Give a quick ego boost to authors.
Allow authors to see what chapters are liked and which ones aren't, allowing them to edit or choose which thread they continue.

 

Ignoring the fact that this has nothing to do with answering the question you quoted and contributes nothing to it - making me ponder why you even bothered to quote it - I'm just going to nod towards professional critics to demonstrate why I have always valued both Likes and Dislikes when used in conjunction with comments. Yet no matter how many times I make this argument, someone only comments on why it's a problem with Dislikes and ignores the fact that it has zero repercussions if used for Likes - never mind the fact that my initial argument nullified those problems from the beginning.

Besides that, if you take a quick peek over at Patreon, you'll see Goal 2 is all about using an algorithm to use these tools to generate suggestions. Comments alone don't carry that ability, they'd have to be combined with either a Like or a Dislike to be useful; otherwise Nemo may risk getting many non-consent suggestions (for one example).

Now, back to my original question:

Situational ideas aside, how do we tell if seemingly valid comments are genuinely valid, or are exploitative comments masquerading as valid?

If anyone can answer that, we can reopen the idea of self-Liking. Until then, the most we should entertain, for probably the hundredth time across the forum, is that we need to make comment requirements for voting on stories and, just to add something new, we stop publicly displaying and notifying about Bookmarks and Favorites so people stop accidentally misusing them to vote up stories and get around the comment requirement - perhaps throw in a pop-up for good measure.

 

Perhaps I'm the odd one here. Because I don't ever see an opportunity for my "likes" to be enough to get any of the fancy "story of the week" listings or what-not. So I don't see this as "artificial" anything. Cause I dunno what else these 'artificial likes' could be used for. Also, I'm a human, not artificial, so my 'likes' are real, not artificial.

I keep seeing people talking about these 'likes' as if they are some kind of currency and as if they actually matter in life. Cause they don't. From looking at some of these comments it's as if giving your chapter a 'like' is like paying yourself with money you didn't earn. But that's not what the 'like' button does. It is a voice. A way for others to see that someone liked your chapter. You get one voice per chapter in the 'like' category (cause you can bookmark or comment too but that's not what I'm talking about here). If you write a bunch of chapters you get a voice for each one. Just like everyone else. But that voice has recently been taken away.

ALSO, if your argument is that for some weird reason you think an author would use self 'likes' to increase their story rating for ... which you never say what for.... I'm guessing the featured stories, but anyway, the recent change only takes place from now on moving forward... it doesn't retroactively effect anything so that only means that authors who never liked their stuff from the beginning are still behind those who did. And thus all newcomers would be handicapped? to whatever ends you're so vehemently looking toward.

And an author who puts out 600 chapters of short crap is still an author who puts out crap. But if they like their stuff, who are you to say they can't. And who cares if they give themselves enough 'likes' to get a trophy for lots of 'likes' or for their 600 chapter crap story to have 600 likes to go with it. Do you think it devalues your own work?

This is false. The 'like' shows up on the chapter for all to see. Whether or not they know who liked it it still communicates that message. The author's pride shows through in one more 'like' being added to the chapter. Also, if you click onto a user's profile it shows every chapter they've ever 'liked'. The argument is valid.

 

You can determine if a chapter is popular or a thread is popular not by the total likes, but by the number of readers reading it.
This is not facebook this a story based website!

 

If self-liking is possible, everyone should (automatically) give their chapters a Like. Who publishes a chapter which they don't like?
So it would just create an offset of 1.

There is no effect on that.

They have no meaning because each and every chapter would have that extra Like, only creating the offset.

It is especially a way for the author to see if others like your chapter.

It's not a currency, but some kind of payment/donation.
It pays for the effort of creating something and especially for providing it without charging money.

It doesn't affect story rating and only creates an offset.

The implementation included the removal of all self-likes. (Though I'm not sure if the notifications are removed as well)

It just creates an offset of 1 because everyone who publishes a chapter should like it enough to give it a Like.

Likes are feedback and motivation.
You can't give yourself feedback.
It gets you no motivation, except you are really good in self-delusion.

The question is pointless. If everyone would self-like their chapters the numbers would be the same with an offset of 1.

How do you determine the number of readers? (favorites and bookmarks?)

 

I'd like to make what I think is a really important point: NOT EVERYONE LIKES THE CHAPTERS THEY'VE WRITTEN. I have rushed out chapters I don't like, for various reasons: because I wanted to publish chapters that I did like and I needed a link, because I wanted to update the story, because I accidently pressed "Publish", or because the owner of the story published it before it was done.

 

I'm gonna have to agree with GE here, sometimes the best you can strive for on certain chapters is mediocrity, not something that is worth "Like"-ing.

 

Under story map there is a number of views per chapter is what I meant.

 

Well, let me explain to you some of CHYOA's history.

We first had a troll whose name we don't mention. His activity dated all the way back to the original site, CHYOO. Whenever he was confronted with bad reviews of his work, he'd use multiple sockpuppets to rate up his own work and rate down that of his critics. Quality didn't matter to him, it was simply an ego trip for himself and a blow to detractors' and occasionally someone whose work he found enviable. These ratings were also used to contradict the bad reviews he received and make his critics' senses of quality seem questionable in some little game only he was playing.

Following his defeat, a new troll rolled into town. Though to be fair, its accounts were quite old. Since the ratings on the old site were good for little more than ego, the multiple accounts were used to create a false sense of popularity by putting multiple writers on the story's cover page. When CHYOA was made and the ratings finally worked, this troll finally began it's years-old quest: attain the Top Story and Top Thread spots for itself. Piles of Likes upon each of its own threads, oodles of Dislikes for the popular stories that threatened its reign, and excuse after excuse of how our math proving they were gaming the system was wrong.

Now yes, this all went through sockpuppets, but the bottom line remains the same: offsets, ego, and cheating.

Besides that, self-Liking also creates fake interest. "This story has a few Likes. I wonder why. Let's investigate." That's pretty much how every viral sensation started: one brave soul took a chance, gave positive reviews and recommendations, and let the curious masses take over. A single Like is evidence of that brave soul, the positive review, and the recommendation. Unless there is evidence it's from the writer itself, it's an artificial recommendation - something professional entertainers hire agents to generate for them.

By this same logic, why do you bother fighting to reinstate it? If it doesn't matter, then there's no problem that needs fixing. Or do you not realize you sound no different than those of us who disagree with you?

The message the Like communicates is, "Somebody found this chapter enjoyable." The message you sought to send is, "I, the writer, am quite proud of this particular chapter." Two different messages.

Likes show the author's ability (writing ability or pandering ability, depends on the thread), not its pride. A person tooting their own horn is something that can be back traced, an anonymous Like is not.

And few users actually bother to check. Those who do would be looking for a needle in a haystack. Every Like ever generally tends to become quite a bit. Add to it, those Likes are mingled with comments, Bookmarks, Favorites, Publishes, and I believe Follows. And you want us to find a single specific Like within all that?

Honestly, with how much I'm discussing comment requirements to abolish a layer of anonymity while Nemo of Utopia and mindtheMILF are discussing FaceBook, you can't even draw the obvious edit that would begin to justify your stance? You'd still have to get through those of us who find it unnecessary, but you'd at least start making a case for yourself.

You do realize that social media was originally created to be a jump-start site for small businesses and entertainers, right? That the entire premise of Likes and whatnot (before the deterioration of social media) were to offer reviews and commentaries like the ones we seek here on CHYOA? That Like is a remnant of this old system. An old system CHYOA should be embracing.

Not an accurate model. People who get stopped mid-way through a thread, people who are writing child threads and don't want continuity errors, game mode stories being replayed, people who reread what they enjoyed, comment discussions, and the list goes on. All reasons for a single person to open the same thread multiple times. Views are more easily inflated than Likes, Bookmarks, and Favorites. If a single person's view only registered once, it'd be something worth looking at, but then what do we do about guests? Views are just too unreliable unless there's enough of them, and even that is influenced by time. The rate at which stories gain views is more valuable, if still very easily gamed.

 

That's closely tied with being on the front page imho.
Unfortunatley i fear that all rating methods are somewhat flawed. Even if you manage to set up a perfect one, its flaw would proably be 90% of people not bothering to use it.

 

No disagreement there, more activity does lead to more views and a spike in the rate for brief times. My comment was more focused on how the story survives without front page time. And, in the interest of addressing front page time, it would also mark differences between views each time it gets bumped to the front page. Add to that, it would also be more useful to see the ratio of unique viewers in relation to how many people are on the site at the time. But just views itself is evidence without context.

Oh, every method's flawed. It's the whole reason we need several. Just look the above section. I barely even began to discuss the data that needs interpreting to facilitate full gauging of our ability. Furthermore, each different method of showing love is supposed to communicate its own unique message that better communicates how well the piece is received, but no one really sees that. To most, Likes, Favorites, and Bookmarks are all the same thing under different names.

 

I mean, ultimately I have no power to change the system back to what it was. I'm just voicing my frustration with the sudden change. I think the reasons for the change are ridiculous. I think if "artificial" votes were a real concern the change would retroactively affect the site to take away all previous "self likes". But you guys keep doing what you're doing. Overall I like the site. I just don't like this new change. My vote should count on any story, any chapter. If you think one vote for one chapter is too many, then that's your prerogative. I don't. And I feel I'm arguing with a wall.

 

Did you even read the replies you got?

 

Yes. All self likes are not removed. I confirmed this by looking at a few chapters I had written. They still have likes which I placed upon them (it gives me the option to "unlike" them). So I still have the same argument over this whole thing. Previous chapters still have the author given likes attributed to them and thus would still have this so called unfair amount of likes over any new chapters added to the site. You argue for the removal of an author's ability to like their work. I argue for it. We obviously do not see eye to eye on this. But I don't see how your argument to change it half way through helps "even" anything out.

 

Then it is supposedly a bug in the database migration, even though it worked when testing it locally.

I couldn't test it on the live database because I didn't push the Like button for a chapter of mine before.

 

Hypnoticus? WHY did you tell them about it?

 

The migration didn't remove all self-likes at one go.
This is fixed now. (activity and notifications may still show the Likes)

 

Still think this is a stupid quest you're on. You've removed my ability to show my own liking of my own work on this site. Dunno what you get out of that, but great. Democracy and myself die a little more. Hooray.

 

Talking about drama.
Obviously you have no idea of what you're talking about, go wash your mouth (hands?) before bringing up democracy for something so silly.

 

Freedom of speech is the cornerstone of Democracy: Hypnoticus may express whatever opinion they like and you have no authority to gainsay them.