ENF/ENM Competitions? How should they be handled?

[Durzan]

Edit 2: TL;DR: spur of the moment real-life ENF competition/bet between two female authors occurred and ended badly with someone E-stalking the participants. Short of banning such competitions in the future, what can be done to ensure that such activities are organized in a safe and fun manner in the future?

So, I'm sure that at least a few of you guys heard about the competition between Allstar7 and Vohenix that fell apart when it was revealed that they are likely to be the same person. However, I did think that the idea they came up with was rather interesting, with a few modifications.

The idea was to have a competition between two or more people of the same sex, to see who could get the most likes on a new story within a certain amount of time. The winner of the competition would get to write up to x number of Exhibitionist chapters about the loser(s). The catch, of course, that the loser(s) must take nude pictures of themselves performing the embarrassing actions presented in each chapter (with reasonable restrictions of course, such as the person's face may/must be hidden, covered, or blurred out in the picture; no actual sex; etc).

However... I noticed that there were a few flaws in this idea (Including the lack of previsions to help ensure the safety of the participants). So to help make things a bit less biased,more modular, and adapted for a wider number of participants, I came up with the following rules.

Part 1: The Competition itself

1. A neutral third party would act as the judge/referee and would post a SINGLE new story to act as the medium for all events in the competition.
2. All participating candidates must be willing and consenting to be exposed to the world, and agree to abide by the rules of the competition.
3. All participating candidates must submit an application to the competition judge, containing the following: a) three pictures of the candidate's body while fully clothed (front, side, & back) and with their lower faces clearly hidden in a manner that doesn't distract from the photo, such as wearing a mask or bandanna, or by not including their face in picture at all; b) a short bio explaining a little bit about themselves, why they are participating, and why they believe they should win the competition.
4. Each candidate will have their (clothed) pictures and their short bio posted to their own individual page in the story which others can like.
5. After a period of 3 to 7 days (as determined by the Judge), the candidate who's page has the most likes will be declared the winner.
6. Other Policies would be established to help ensure a greater level of safety and privacy in such competitions.

Part 2: The Stories

So this is the part that I am having trouble with... how to handle the writing of the stories. How are ideas submitted? I do know that those who failed to achieve the most likes previously will have to post nude photos of themselves reenacting a scene of what happens in each chapter, but the specifics of that are still up for debate and determination. Heck, some of the details of the first part may need to be readjusted.

So have at it, folks! Any ideas? Let's hammer this idea into something plausible and fun. I don't know that it will actually happen, but hey, who knows.

Part 3: Safety and Privacy

To clarify, Privacy is definitely a big issue, and part of the reason why I opened this discussion in the first place. I want to figure out how to address those concerns and handle this kind of thing in the future. The discussion of how such a competition would work was a starting point and a foundation for the discussion.

Is having a contest a bad idea? Probably. But banning it probably isn't the right solution, either. People who want to consensually expose themselves as part of their writing should have that right, and those who want to have a risk of it happening as part of a game or bet should be able to do that as well.

I'd much rather it be handled in a structured manner where the CHYOA mod team can keep things in check, thus mitigating the risk to some extent, while also letting the exhibitionist community have some fun in the process. Because sooner or later, someone else is gonna get it into their head to do this kind of thing again, and with that comes the same kind of risk of what already happened to anyone else that already occurred. If it gets outright banned, it might actually make things worse. Those who want it bad enough would do it anyway, and without the structure and boundaries we could set up as a community to limit and prevent this kind of tragedy in the future. And like it or not, it would be inevitable that the mod team wouldn't be able to always be able to catch or deal with such stories in time before tragedy strikes.

Pandora's box has already been opened on it, and now we got to deal with it. Let's work to brainstorm a policy that can keep everyone safe and happy. So what can we do?

 

[Thorn_]

I feel like having people do real life things violates some kind of rule...or should honestly.

I mean...even if people don't agree with me of seeing it as kind of weird and gross...that's aside from the point. It's painfully easy to grab a physical location and things like that from photos and putting real life pictures of yourself on a site full of sexual deviants is going to be a lot of trouble. There's a serious concern of safety to something like that.

 

[SeriousBrainDamage]

I'm sure that at least a few of you guys heard about the competition between Allstar7 and Vohenix

Noticed it yersterday or the day before, smelled fishy from a mile, if you ask me.

when it was revealed that they are likely to be the same person

You don't say...
Edit.
By the way, one of them is still claiming the whole thing to be true.

Let's hammer this idea into something plausible and fun.

Let's hammer exactly what? A better hoax? A rather complex story that should describe such event?
I'm not sure that I'm getting the point

So this is the part that I am having trouble with... how to handle the writing of the stories. How are ideas submitted? I do know that those who failed to achieve the most likes previously will have to post nude photos of themselves reenacting a scene of what happens in each chapter, but the specifics of that are still up for debate and determination.

Wouldn't it be simpler if the two hypotetical girls wrote each a ENF story with the other being the protagonist and every chapter, after a likes counts, the loser would have to post a pic illustrating the winner's chapter?
Just saying..

 

[Durzan]

Noticed it yersterday or the day before, smelled fishy from a mile, if you ask me.



You don't say...
Edit.
By the way, one of them is still claiming the whole thing to be true.



Let's hammer exactly what? A better hoax? A rather complex story that should describe such event?
I'm not sure that I'm getting the point



Wouldn't it be simpler if the two hypothetical girls wrote each a ENF story with the other being the protagonist and every chapter, after a likes counts, the loser would have to post a pic illustrating the winner's chapter?
Just saying..

This is why I was asking for suggestions... cause thats actually a pretty good way to go about it.

 

[SeriousBrainDamage]

Well, that's great...
I'm still confused as what are you aiming at?
Actual ENF girl competition?
May I politely point you to this thread, sir? >>>https://forum.chyoa.com/threads/why-are-so-many-chyoa-authors-guys.2621/

 

[Durzan]

Well, that's great...
I'm still confused as what are you aiming at?
Actual ENF girl competition?
May I politely point you to this thread, sir? >>>https://forum.chyoa.com/threads/why-are-so-many-chyoa-authors-guys.2621/

Yes, I do want to have an actual competition (provided there are people willing and able to participate, of course), just maybe not immediately. Let's let things cool down for a little bit and just focus on brainstorming for now.

As for the male to female apparent problem, I guarantee that there are far more female users on the site than what might seem immediately apparent. From personal experience, I happen to know of a couple here and there; heck, I even interact with some of them on a somewhat regular basis. But its not just personal experience: This site has on the order of tens of thousands of registered users actively participating on this site at any given time, and that number is steadily rising every day, and it made it's way past the 50K mark. Even if we assume that only 10% of that population is female, that's still approximately 5 thousand potential female authors who may or may not be willing to participate in an ENF competition (Now, admittedly most of the userbase probably doesn't write much, if at all, but still...). And that's just with a massive lowball of a wild guess; a more reasonable guess would be to assume that the active female population on CHYOA falls somewhere between 33% and 66% of the total active population. The more active users join the site, the more the ratio of men to women will slowly start to balance out over time.

Now, I don't know if very many of the women on CHYOA would want to participate, especially after two user's personal bet went south when a troll decided to do some digging and thus violate their privacy. However, I'd be willing to bet that at least a couple of them might be willing to entertain the idea. And since it's impractical and probably rude to go around to every single woman asking if they'd participate, I figured it was more appropriate to put up a thread and see who's interested while also hammering out how this kind of thing should work if it ever manages to get off the ground in the near future.

Sooner or later though, somebody else is gonna want to do something like this, especially after Vohenix and Allstar7 opened up the box with their bet. And if such a thing isn't planned out in advance and watched over by CHYOA staff, I guarantee it will go south rather quickly. I figure its best to put all this out in the open and get the ball rolling on such a system then wait for somebody else to get the idea and risk another invasion of privacy when everyone else isn't looking.

 

[Shibbar]

Man, if you want to see women being humiliated so badly just go to Pornhub. This is a CHYOA writing site. Going through with something like this would be just downright skeezy, and has so much potential to fail in so many spectacular ways.

Also, while I'm sure there's a lot of active users on this site, I can't but feel that you are vastly overestimating the number, but I'm willing to be proven wrong about that.

 

[Thorn_]

See, you are kind of glossing over a serious issue. You acknowledge the last contest ended with porn fans being porn fans, and the person in question getting E-stalked. Whether or not they were the same one isn’t the point. If it happened once already, it’s not even a hypothetical that it could happen, because it already has.

It’s not worth risking the privacy or personal safety of users just for sexual gratification alone. That’s just how I look at it, sorry.

 

[MidbossMan]

Yeah, I'm all for people writing what they want but I feel like in this case it comes with a huge, fat "we aren't liable when people harass you" tag from the management, which, to me, makes me wonder if forbidding it isn't a better way to just nip this in the bud...

Plus if you want my honest, cynical opinion, I think this whole "vote with your likes" scenario with real girls was just a recipe to get tons and tons of likes. I don't think it's much like stifling creative expression to forbid this sort of thing.

All of that said I like the idea of story competitions! Maybe that's something to look at more in the future? Just not necessarily with this "decide my IRL fate" spin.

 

[Thorn_]

Yeah, I'm all for people writing what they want but I feel like in this case it comes with a huge, fat "we aren't liable when people harass you" tag from the management, which, to me, makes me wonder if forbidding it isn't a better way to just nip this in the bud...

Plus if you want my honest, cynical opinion, I think this whole "vote with your likes" scenario with real girls was just a recipe to get tons and tons of likes. I don't think it's much like stifling creative expression to forbid this sort of thing.

All of that said I like the idea of story competitions! Maybe that's something to look at more in the future? Just not necessarily with this "decide my IRL fate" spin.

Now, I might be looking at it from a wrapped point of view, so anybody is welcome to stop me if I'm wrong here...

What we know is someone can and will E-stalk somebody and if there's prior experience of it already happening, then it's not even regards to the potential of the scenario. Not to mention, that users are still people with actual lives beyond porn at the end of the day and adding unnecessary risk of potentially getting doxxed or blackmailed just doesn't seem like a good option.

To make my view point clear, I believe most users and people lean towards their idea of good rather than bad. Spiritually, I don't really hold a notion of any good or evil, per-say, just ones that are by their nature beneficial or harmful to others. Some people still take pleasure in doing harmful actions. Even if most of the user base is mostly good(Not bad, just perverted), it only takes a handful or even just one person to act maliciously to cause serious harm through competitions like that.

Yes, you can't stop people from making bad decisions like having a contest like this. Actively encouraging it though just comes across as a generally bad decision.

Obviously, there's a audience for it like there is an audience for literally anything in the sexual world. I'm also quite confident that if you took the same competition and it applied it to users who are traps or aspiring ones, that would be popular too. The internet loves traps. But it would still be completely idiotic of me to go and participate in such a large scale thing even if it would be popular, for all reasons pointed out above.

This isn't a criticism of sharing pics with people you trust. Even I've done that much with close friends that I trust. But subjecting to the entirety of a few hundred strangers let alone thousands, would be just a generally bad decision for anybody to do, regardless of their gender.

If you really want to see an influx of more active female writers then probably one of the most fundamental things with that goal is they can feel safe on the sites they write with, which is true for anybody.

 

[Durzan]

Now, I might be looking at it from a wrapped point of view, so anybody is welcome to stop me if I'm wrong here...

What we know is someone can and will E-stalk somebody and if there's prior experience of it already happening, then it's not even regards to the potential of the scenario. Not to mention, that users are still people with actual lives beyond porn at the end of the day and adding unnecessary risk of potentially getting doxxed or blackmailed just doesn't seem like a good option.

To make my view point clear, I believe most users and people lean towards their idea of good rather than bad. Spiritually, I don't really hold a notion of any good or evil, per-say, just ones that are by their nature beneficial or harmful to others. Some people still take pleasure in doing harmful actions. Even if most of the user base is mostly good(Not bad, just perverted), it only takes a handful or even just one person to act maliciously to cause serious harm through competitions like that.

Yes, you can't stop people from making bad decisions like having a contest like this. Actively encouraging it though just comes across as a generally bad decision.

Obviously, there's a audience for it like there is an audience for literally anything in the sexual world. I'm also quite confident that if you took the same competition and it applied it to users who are traps or aspiring ones, that would be popular too. The internet loves traps. But it would still be completely idiotic of me to go and participate in such a large scale thing even if it would be popular, for all reasons pointed out above.

This isn't a criticism of sharing pics with people you trust. Even I've done that much with close friends that I trust. But subjecting to the entirety of a few hundred strangers let alone thousands, would be just a generally bad decision for anybody to do, regardless of their gender.

If you really want to see an influx of more active female writers then probably one of the most fundamental things with that goal is they can feel safe on the sites they write with, which is true for anybody.

My thought was not to encourage the competition per se, but set it up in such a way so that such competitions can only be held or performed under certain structures and guidelines that would actively decrease the risk in the first place.

IE, I'm essentially asking: "Given that these competitions will eventually occur whether we want them to or not, what can we do to ensure these things are both safe and fun for all involved?"

 

[Durzan]

Also updated OP to reflect additional points brought up.

 

[Shibbar]

IE, I'm essentially asking: "Given that these competitions will eventually occur whether we want them to or not, what can we do to ensure these things are both safe and fun for all involved?"

Will they occour whether we want them or not? I mean, in the four or so years that I've been on this site, there has not be a single contest like this. Or at the very least, none that went further than an ignored single-post thread. This insistance reeks of desperation. Contests are fine, but either have it for sport or some prize/reward that is appropriate.

 

[SeriousBrainDamage]

IE, I'm essentially asking: "Given that these competitions will eventually occur whether we want them to or not, what can we do to ensure these things are both safe and fun for all involved?"

That's just wishful thinking on your part.
The answer is nothing except discouraging it, in my humble opinion.

 

[brevdravis]

Sorry, this just SOOO reminds me of an old joke ad that some friends of mine once ran in their extremely tiny small print black and white Magazine in the 90's.
It was "Russian Gamer Girls Want To Roleplay with YOU!"
It was an OBVIOUS parody of Russian Mail Order bride ads... and guys called to tell them the printed number was wrong, which was a FAKE number BTW... in the hundreds. They wrote letters and Emails... It was NUTS.
Which means... way too many people believe what they read. Just because something can happen doesn't mean it's inevitable. Although to judge from the headlines, I might be wrong on that.

So, in the spirit of Russian and nuts things...

 

[ewong]

If this sort of contest were to happen again, the participants in question could DM any of the mods on CHYOA about it, and have the mods be the ones who post the story and give the details.

For privacy, the participants would have to wear a full face mask, and they are never to give out their username to anyone but the mods. Instead, they will choose a pseudonym to go by, which the story/competition will refer to them as.

They would need to send whichever mod chooses to field the competition a clothed photo (minus face, or wearing the mask they're gonna use for the public photos) holding a paper sign of the current date, and whatever pseudonym they want to go by. These photos will be used in the public story to receive likes.

To me, this would be the safest way to do it. Have the mods handle it, so if someone were to leak their identities, it would be on the mods, and not a random user.

But, I wouldn't be against outlawing this sort of thing in the future, just to be safe.

 

[insertnamehere]

As for the male to female apparent problem, I guarantee that there are far more female users on the site than what might seem immediately apparent.

Sure. They are still a minority.

Even if we assume that only 10% of that population is female, that's still approximately 5 thousand potential female authors who may or may not be willing to participate in an ENF competition (Now, admittedly most of the userbase probably doesn't write much, if at all, but still...).

5000 is nothing. Let there be a 40% chance that a given active member is also an active author. Let there be a 20% chance that a given active member is also an active member of the forum. Let there be a 60% chance that a given active forum member will see this thread. Let there be a 10% chance that a woman seeing this thread will willingly post pictures of themselves on a porn site. Etc, etc...

And that's just with a massive lowball of a wild guess; a more reasonable guess would be to assume that the active female population on CHYOA falls somewhere between 33% and 66% of the total active population. The more active users join the site, the more the ratio of men to women will slowly start to balance out over time.

Sounds like wishful thinking. I think it would be noticeable if even a third of the site was female, let alone a significant majority. I'd put 25% as my max, and 5% as my minimum. I know it sucks, dude, but it's life.

Sooner or later though, somebody else is gonna want to do something like this, especially after Vohenix and Allstar7 opened up the box with their bet.

Doubtful. Especially if the reception in this thread is any indication.

And if such a thing isn't planned out in advance and watched over by CHYOA staff, I guarantee it will go south rather quickly.

You are not staff, and staff are not gods. It doesn't matter what measures you take, any contest like this will go south like a bird migrating for winter.

There is another issue that could be disastrous. Let's say we do get women posting their nudes on CHYOA and everyone 'like'-ing them like they have an Onlyfans subscription. Without their identities, there is no way to verify that they are of legal age. Unfortunately, the basic writing skills, understanding of sexual concepts, and general maturity of many (non-forum) members makes me wonder how many people are lying when they give their age. It's not exactly difficult to simply say, "I am 18."

 

[Durzan]

You are not staff, and staff are not gods. It doesn't matter what measures you take, any contest like this will go south like a bird migrating for winter.

I don't usually make a big deal about it, but I *actually* am a moderator here, which technically means I am part of the CHYOA staff. And while yes, we are not gods, there *are* ways that at least some of these issues can be mitigated or outright eliminated. Case in point, ewong's suggestion:

If this sort of contest were to happen again, the participants in question could DM any of the mods on CHYOA about it, and have the mods be the ones who post the story and give the details.

For privacy, the participants would have to wear a full face mask, and they are never to give out their username to anyone but the mods. Instead, they will choose a pseudonym to go by, which the story/competition will refer to them as.

They would need to send whichever mod chooses to field the competition a clothed photo (minus face, or wearing the mask they're gonna use for the public photos) holding a paper sign of the current date, and whatever pseudonym they want to go by. These photos will be used in the public story to receive likes.

To me, this would be the safest way to do it. Have the mods handle it, so if someone were to leak their identities, it would be on the mods, and not a random user.

But, I wouldn't be against outlawing this sort of thing in the future, just to be safe.

While there are still quite a few holes left open in such a scenario (namely liability issues on the mods and the potential for people to figure out the person's location in the picture), that's exactly the kind of thing we could do to reduce the chances of someone being exposed to harassment or e-stalking.

There is another issue that could be disastrous. Let's say we do get women posting their nudes on CHYOA and everyone 'like'-ing them like they have an Onlyfans subscription. Without their identities, there is no way to verify that they are of legal age. Unfortunately, the basic writing skills, understanding of sexual concepts, and general maturity of many (non-forum) members makes me wonder how many people are lying when they give their age. It's not exactly difficult to simply say, "I am 18."

That's... actually a very important point. Thank you for pointing that out.

 

[Shibbar]

How can anyone still be debating for this? Does no-one realise how lecherous and creepy they seem when they keep insisting on this? I'm not railing against whatever fetishes you have- I couldn't care less what fetish you have- but there is a place for everything and this isn't here. Going through with this would be a bad idea, and raises a lot of moral and ethical red flags. It has so much possibility for going south. This is a writing website. We write. You can write about ENF. You can write about (almost) anything. However, everything here should be left in the realm of fantasy; don't try to bring in the real world. There are other forums and websites dedicated to this sorts of things if you really want to participate in this or something similar to this, but it makes you look like a creep when you insist on doing it here. Yeah we're all adults, yeah we can all consent to whatever, but it really makes you look desperate when you try to worm and find an excuse that would make this contest 'okay'.

Is having a contest a bad idea? Probably. But banning it probably isn't the right solution, either. People who want to consensually expose themselves as part of their writing should have that right, and those who want to have a risk of it happening as part of a game or bet should be able to do that as well.

Pandora's box has already been opened on it, and now we got to deal with it.

You make it sound like there are so many people clamouring for it, but there really isn't. It's less pandora's box and more a cardboard box with a couple of pillbugs.

Again, contests are fine, but do it for the sport or a prize that seems appropriate.

I don't usually make a big deal about it, but I *actually* am a moderator here, which technically means I am part of the CHYOA staff. And while yes, we are not gods, there *are* ways that at least some of these issues can be mitigated or outright eliminated. Case in point, ewong's suggestion:

This does not put me at ease if you think a staff member should put forth an idea like this in the first place.

 

[insertnamehere]

I don't usually make a big deal about it, but I *actually* am a moderator here, which technically means I am part of the CHYOA staff. And while yes, we are not gods, there *are* ways that at least some of these issues can be mitigated or outright eliminated.

My sincere apologies. I have no idea how that fact eluded me.

How can anyone still be debating for this? Does no-one realise how lecherous and creepy they seem when they keep insisting on this? . . .

While I agree that the contest idea is a bit much, it is not a particularly appropriate way to look at it. CHYOA is a porn site. Most of the users on here are not going to be put off anything "lecherous and creepy". You and I may draw the line here, but I think most people would not see this as a particularly moral issue.