A discussion on CHYOA Rules

OK so as I understand it, the problem is the word "animal". Do you have problem with talking dog or cat? I will use their names in following chapters but I have to mention their species

So the word "pet" is fine.

Earlier chapters just mention a talking cat and dog, and there is some hint about " sex happened in past" or "sex will happen in future."

 

I think it was just a misunderstanding here -- blank97, your English is actually super good by the way, you even get things like metaphors translated right, and learning a new language to that degree is really impressive. But, I think sometimes it can sound a bit like you're getting confrontational even when you're not. I also thought you had been getting a bit like what insertnamehere was saying, but reading everything that you're saying now, it looks like that was just an error of translation, not something you were consciously doing. I know that sometimes that can happen because speaking in a second language can make the things you're saying sound robotic or literal, where you just state one thing and then state the next, and that can definitely seem a bit like you're trying to start a fight even when you're not. Again, I also noticed it, but knowing that English isn't your first language and with what you're saying here I think it was all unintentional now.

As for what insertnamehere was saying in this thread, I also think that might've been misunderstood a bit by you, just because you're talking in an entire extra language right now. To clarify what he meant a bit, your question of "what if two animals passed the harkness test" was answered by him essentially saying that if two animals pass the harkness test, then they are not animals, even if they have the appearance of animals. For example, Aslan from Narnia is not an animal, even though he looks like one. It's a bit like asking "what if two yellow squares were red" -- the answer is that they wouldn't be yellow squares at all.

What insertnamehere was saying didn't need to be clarified more, he said enough to make his point, but that can stop being true when the person reading isn't 100% used to the language. I hope this clarification made sense! I think all of you guys' disagreements are mainly just from that stuff, him seeing confrontation in your words when you didn't mean to put them there and you seeing confrontation in his words when he didn't mean to put them there. This would all be solved if the world just kept speaking Latin way back then.

But the answer, basically, is ye! You're all good to write about two animal-shaped things doing stuff so long as they don't act like animals. You probably just can't find many examples because it's a very niche idea.

 

Can you give an example of such story that have a fictional world where pets from our world became smarter(human level intelligence) instead of using fictional creatures. When I said I couldn't find it I meant , I couldn't find a story with a dog or cat smart enough , everyone (atleast from what I could search) use orcs goblin centaur etc.

I want to use a pet that transformed for humiliation.

 

Well I have learned English mostly by watching movies and TV series so I can't say it is super good but thanks for the compliment.

I guess CHYOA has a problem with the word "animal" so I will use "pet" from now on, is that OK?

I was saying animal as I don't think an animal stop being animal just because they are smart enough.
E.g. In "secret life of pets" all the dogs are still dogs.

But if it is a rule breaker I will not use the word"animal"

Well @insertnamehere said they are not animals if they pass harkness test while I was asking about talking animals considering his previous replies on my thread and probably because of my misunderstanding of English, I thought he was just saying it to make my question look ridiculous while I was genuinely asking to make sure my story doesn't break any rules.

As I said above I wrote the "do you hate me" line as a joke, remembering previous encounters. But he seem to have taken it seriously. I promise not to do that again. And I apologize to everyone who is bothered by it. I assume a lot of people will be bothered by the constant alert on this thread because of me.

I am sorry I don't understand what that means.

I thought the word "animal" was to be avoided. Are you joking now? Acting like animal will definitely fail harkness test.

 

Fair, and thanks for the answer. I asked it because I was trying to distill the question to which the answer was the only part that I thought still seemed to be raising eyebrows; if the answer is "yeah, that's not an exception to those definitions," it is what it is.

 

I can try to step in as a fellow non-native english speaker.
The whole mattere is no doubt a grey area, so a careful use of words is in order.

Animal? Pet? Beast? Creature?
I don't really think the word used to call them per se makes much difference: according to Chyoa site rules,
once they pass the Harkness test they are fair game.
BUT, the word commonly used to address these characters in-world may induce readers to see them as actual animals.
Despite this not being the case, a mod could be induced to intervene on the basis that bestiality IS forbidden.

What about acting like animals?
Does it mean they can't purr or bark or lick their paws?
I don't think that's the point either. (Yet of course these actions may reinforce the idea you're writing about normal dogs and cat)
The point is that they must act in a suitable manner for creatures provided with superior intellect.
And what is that supposed to mean?, you may ask.
There's no quick answer to that other than: not like your dog or cat.

Now, speaking offhand, it's pretty self evident that all this is a logical loophole.
It has understandable etic implications and liability ones.

Yet writing about a beast-like creature having sex with a human is, all considered, bestiality.
Just an admissible declination of it.
Details, like the words animal or pet of whatever, makes the whole difference.
If you plan to write about it, tread lightly.

You know how they say : the devil is in the details

 

As I have mentioned earlier

the animal(or rather pet) thing is just a minor plot. I am not going to use purring or barking or any animal behavior. It(this plot) is just being used for the humiliation of a character and enslavement as a human pet. In the fictional world of my story universe can be changed one of those changes(In a way first one that means something) is pets becoming intelligent like humans, they have jobs, politics, cities everything. Purring and barking doesn't make any sense after having all that.


Also @gene.sis I have another question, Is it okay if a pet marries a human? A pet from my story passes harkness test so marriage shouldn't be a problem but I am just checking.

I have changed the word. Now it is "species of the pet" but I don't think it makes any sense to talk about species of pet. If you can just let this one word slide, it will be appreciated but if you disagree I won't change it back to animal.

That chapter is not completed yet. One of the reason being I don't feel like writing until this situation is resolved and I know for sure what is allowed and what can get me banned.

 

@gene.sis . If you want link for that chapter, here it is and that hint is

There is also one on another branch. Here and that text that hints it is:

For this Here

For other branch here

 

If there is still some confusion I have to tell you. Before the lines about sex with dog is the line:

And same for cats.

 

If the behavior of a being is like the behavior of an animal, the being wouldn't pass the Harkness test.

But a being that passes the Harkness test can act AS IF they are an animal.
Just think of a human who is into pet play. Just because they are purr and lick their hands doesn't mean they are no longer human.

Well, marriage is no sexual activity, so your characters can marry humans, animals, cucumbers, buildings, planets, or whatever.

It is also possible to write about a character who masturbates in front of his dog.
(But not in front of a child! The two rules are worded differently for a reason.)

I couldn't spot any sexual situation in the published chapters yet.

You don't have to make it sound awkward. It is enough when you show the behavior at any point before the sexual situation.

I also haven't noticed any sexual situation in the unpublished chapter.

You can't generalize that.

You also don't need to use lengthy explanations to prove that the non-human characters meet the Harkness test.
The beings must be described convincingly.
Showing that they meet the criteria is enough.

"Do you remember the dog who lives next door? You know, the one who always says that you don't earn such a fine ass like mine."
"Oh, the one who sneaked into your flat and stole your used panties?"
"WHAT?"

Though making them the descendants of animals might be sketchy.
If you switch to an alternate universe, they could just have been there. They could have had their own cities forever and maybe they suggested to trade human slaves for pet companions.

 

"I now pronounce you husband and trampoline."

Ah, marital bliss...

 

But I don't want to risk it, if these intellectual pets in my story act like animals this might raise some flags.

But marriage implies sex.

I thought underage rule prohibits you from having a naked child in front of adult not the other way around. I thought if an underage character sees an adult one nude it is fine. I have a chapter in my story where a girl(age not mentioned but she is under 18) sees her older brother(over 18) getting spanked while he is nude(as a punishment not in an erotic way). Also I was planning on writing a chapter (haven't even finished the previous chapter yet) in someone else's story(in which I am an author) where a child sees a woman nude. In that I was planning on writing that she(the woman) secretly masturbates but I will not do that now.

As I said there is just subtle (probably so subtle that nobody got it) hints. I have mentioned those in a previous post. The pain in the ass is supposed to hint anal sex and the fact that there is a talking animal who cares for that character's well being implies he is the one who did it.

As I have not started to write sexual situation including animals, I have just explained why they pass harkness test.

It's because it isn't finished yet. I stopped writing as I didn't want to get banned for breaking any rules but I noticed you(moderator) locked the chapter I reported for plagiarism. So if you just lock the chapters that break rules, I think I can continue writing and if there is any problem I can just edit it later. Though just to be sure I will message you the chapter links before publishing them.

So can I use the phrase "species of animal" as I have established that they are evolving into intellectual beings.

I used the explanation of harkness test as the interaction it was referring to was brief and not sexual. Before any sex with pets I will establish them like humans and use their names instead of writing cat or dog.

This just proves you are a better writer than I. But I will not copy it as I have somethings planned already and I don't want to plagiarize.

Humans are descendants of apes, humans didn't just existed from the start, they evolved. I want the same for pets in my story. I think it will be better if I just complete the chapter and send you the link and publish it only after your approval.

 

In CHYOA, most humans act like animals in stories so I don't see the issue.

Jokes aside, I think as long as you convey the animal is sapient and (sexually) an adult you shouldn't have any issues with the guidelines. There's lots of stories with animalistic demons raping female paladins so as long as your text implies that your dog possesses intelligence (hell, give them telepathy, make them superior to humans - they already are in many cases) you should be in the clear.

I think this depends on whether there's anything sexual going on. In case one I'd write the spanking as strictly disciplinary.

In the second case, hard to tell. If the woman is masturbating because she has an exhibitionist fetish you'd definitely want her to be spotted than more than just the kid, otherwise I think the reviewer will have a hard time letting it slide...

 

But there is no situation described that features a sexual situation

Yes, we lock the chapter and get in contact with the author. Though that doesn't mean you should just ignore the rules.
And a locked chapter might not be that good for your story anyway as readers would see that the chapter is in moderation (If the chapter is new, users who have faved the chapter already received the notification.)

If you're not sure about it, feel free to ask.

Bestiality is — depending on the source — defined as

The last one if from m-w and only makes sense if you see any animal as a lower animal. The second last is from m-w's Learner's Dictionary.

So if you say "animal" it implies bestiality.

What I meant is that you can't generalize that "pet" is always fine.
It's more about the overall picture.


I think the general approach shouldn't be that you make up a being that only just meets the rules.
Rather think about what you need to tell the story.
Use the necessities and see if they meet the rules. If not, change the requirements and check again.

So you said that it is meant as a punishment.
What exactly is the punishment?
If it is "getting fucked by an animal" you're definitely on the wrong path and there's little you can do about it.
If it is that the beings' cocks are slimy and stinky and that their cum will stick to everything for days, it is a whole different story.
It might also be a racial issue, as humans might think that all beings are dirty or make ugly offspring. (As long as it is only done within the scope of the story.)

I didn't mean that I would rule that out generally.
The question is: Does it really matters for the story.

It doesn't matter who is naked. The rules say "a character."

This site is about erotic content, so what would be the point of having a child there?

 

True.

 

I didn't mean that I will ignore the rules. I meant if I interpret a rule wrongly and make a mistake, I will get a chance to correct it. I previously thought I will get banned so I stopped writing.

I think it also depends on their notification settings.

The punishment is that pets are considered lower class beings as they are descendants of non intellectuals (that is why that descendants thing is important)
Also in case of dog, he will fuck john who called Amanda a bitch in a previous chapter so this is a pun that bitch means getting fucked by dog and he will become the curse word he used for Amanda.

It is. In fact, since using 'animal' is not allowed I will use it as the A word(you know like the N word)

But the rule says the underage character not be in erotic context. One of the points in erotic context is:

• A character is fully or partially nude.

I thought the character who is nude is written in erotic context.
Just to be sure check my chapter. It is a back story and not meant as erotic but if you feel a need for correction please tell me before locking it.

I can't give you a link for the chapter that is still in my mind so I am going to explain it a little bit and hope nobody who wants to read it, read it here first and it gets spoiled for them. Here it goes:
A woman is tricked into being a human pet(that is the plot of story(not mine)).
In my chapter she is sent to pet cleaning center( story takes place in an fictional futuristic world where robots and AI do most of work) she will be cleaned by robotic hands and there are other pets. Owner of one of them is a child who sees her and asks her mother "Aw mommy why doesn't she have breasts" (she has A cup it is being mentioned a lot) this is supposed to be humiliating for her. Also I planned that she start to rub secretly against robot hands cleaning her to get herself off.
If you feel something is wrong tell me, it is very easy to adjust something when I haven't even started writing it.

 

I think if your character is getting aroused by being seen by the kid that counts as erotic context by the CHYOA rules. Change the kid to a high society member losing his monocle over seeing such a public display or something...

 

To clarify: based on the exact rules wording, the manner in which the underage character is involved does not matter at all. As long as they are part of the erotic context, it is not allowed. Them not being part of the erotic aspect of the scene is not enough; they can't be in the scene at all. So, a child watching adults having sex is still illegal, even if the adults don't notice and the child isn't aroused.

Technically, this means a dog can watch a woman get changed, but not a kid. This is because the Bestiality and Underage sections of the rules refer to different concepts: sexual situations and erotic contexts, respectively.

 

Actually, there's a logical flaw as they can say the same about humans.

If you're implying that they are animals, you're contradicting the description.

"Erotic context" describes the situation.

The scene offers information about the character in a reporting and non-arousing manner, so it doesn't violate the rules.

This would violate the rules.

Embarrassment by being nude is erotic humiliation. So the scene is meant to arouse the reader.

So you should replace the character as Sune's Kiss suggested.
E.g. two nuns watching her and talking...
"Is she a boy or a girl? She looks like a girl but her breasts are smaller than brother Paul's."
"Sure, but brother Paul has a lot more between his... um... I mean maybe he is an LQTB."

Or two teens mocking her for being flat as a mat/pancake.

(Btw... "A cups" aren't "nothing" and there are even smaller cup sizes. Additionally, stating "A cups" doesn't mean much. There is a long thread about breast size on the forum.)

Exactly

 

I know I made the humans are ape descendants argument. But these pets still look like that and they evolved only 100 years ago but humans evolved way before that. The class differences is explained in the chapter.

That is why I went with the, someone is telling this instead of happening approach.

I haven't written it so I will just change the girl with two sorority sister who start laughing and teasing her. I was starting to think this is wrong myself after reading all your replies.

Sorry, I don't know that word.

Surprisingly I wrote about sorority sisters(just above in this same post not in any chapter) before reading this. But the teen reminds me. Isn't there a whole category of teens but only teen you can write about are 18&19 and sometimes they look forced. Did you know there are countries with age of consent as low as 11 and as high as 21.

I meant it as a swear word implying they are not but some people call them that to disrespect them.

Story owners problem not mine.