OK, this is weird and random but I have to say it: does anyone else get weirdly unhappy with the quality of their writing at times? Not just that I’m unhappy with my output, or I’m displeased with a particular thing like a chapter or branch didn’t work out, but a random feeling that comes and goes? Now I know that finding a writer of any kind who frets about their work or worries about feedback etc is not a challenge. I doubt more than a small, tiny minority of authors here don’t struggle with self-doubt at times. But for the last month I’ll write a chapter, not really love it but think it’s ok, then I publish it and it reads like dogshit. Even the stuff I enjoyed (I am strangely proud of a long hidden aspect of my current story and how it worked in the plot) seems annoying somehow, like I know it’s a lesser work and if people say they like it I’m almost suspicious. Am I just reaching the limit of my talent, such as it is? Maybe my occasionally iffy sense of grammar and actual *craft* is lacking, and now I can see it? I still have endless ideas for characters and plots, but when I write them down I’m not as thrilled as I was a few months ago writing my TAM branch. Huh, maybe it’s because I’m feeling more like I’m repeating myself? Anyway, feel free to discuss how any sort of creative endeavor is a bad idea and just dooms us to unhappiness and existential despair.
I wouldn't use the word "unhappy", but ye, I do think about it quite a bit. For me, it's only part writing quality, with the other part being the actual content because I for real had no IDEA what I was doing when I started (which is part of why I started, so that I could sorta understand it better). I'm super still guessing most of the stuff, but I think I've got a sorta handle on it now. But! It's lucky for me, because the takeaway I have which applies to both is more obvious when applied to the content of writing, over the quality. That takeaway being that it's a very very good thing that we think about it/worry about it/get unhappy about it, even if the feelings suck. If I wasn't ever thinking about whether or not the content I was writing would fit in and be good, then not only would it probably be bad, it would never get any better, right? It's the same thing with writing quality. I hope I never get to a point where I'm not thinking about how things could be better or how things weren't perfect, mainly because they won't ever be perfect, and it's better to know that than to not, I think. I think it's worth maybe trying to lessen how much unhappiness these sorts of things bring to you, for sure, but I think there's no good reason to try get rid of the feelings altogether. If I had to rank my preferences, my first would be being super duper happy about my writing and my writing having no flaws (content OR quality), then second would be not being perfectly content and my writing having flaws, third would be being perfectly happy and my writing having flaws, and worst of all would be being unhappy about my writing when it had no flaws, I think (probably a hard sentence to understand, but yougettit). So, I'm not perfectly happy, but we also don't exist in a world where having perfect writing is practical, so I'm pretty alright with not being perfectly happy about my stuff all the time. It's my second option! It means I'm both improving AND that there's feasible ways to improve, right? So definitely work to try let those feelings impact you less, but I think it's actually very very good that the feelings are there, in my opinion. Keep that chin up!
Yeah, for me it’s a strange roller coaster of ‘Wow, I’m way better than I thought I was’ highs, to ‘Omg I can’t even reread what I posted, what am I doing with my life’ lows. If there’s some sort of reason or pattern, I haven’t found it yet. So I just kind of go with a flow, so to speak. The only thing I’ve learned is to never stop writing. You may hate your writing, it may never get the reaction you’re hoping for, hell it may never even be posted for others to see, but always keep writing. Also, probably pretty obvious, but read. Read all the time. Read smut. Read classics. Read fan fiction. Just read, and if you enjoy writing, the words will start to flow from your own ideas. And if at some point, you come across a story of some kind and think ‘well I can do better than that’ well then your faith in your writing might be restored, and you might get the motivation you’re looking for if you’re lacking it.
As you said, I think all writers feel this way to some extent. I'd imagine even some of the biggest names out there probably feel like they just haven't quite grasped what they're chasing. A friend of mine who contributes on stories recently came to me with a new idea for a character in my story, Nuns vs. Knights. I confided in him that I had a new idea too, but I was worried that the story was getting too crowded for readers to enjoy. Of course, he gave me the advice I wanted to give myself: in the end, if it's fun for me, I should do it. It doesn't matter if other people think it's crowded, so long as I enjoy writing it and rereading it. That may sound different from your situation, since, after all, you said you hate it as soon as you post it. However, I suspect a lot of that is subconscious. I tell people not to worry about likes so dang much, but I still fall into that trap all the time! No matter how much you tell yourself that it doesn't matter, it still bugs you if they dip. You feel like it's gotta be something you can change by "writing harder," or utilizing some kind of trick. Getting past that worry is one of the toughest parts of continued writing here, I think. Also, don't feel afraid to "move on" or take a break if something just isn't fun. I had a pretty tough break-up with my long time forum rp because I just wasn't enjoying writing it any more, but I'm glad I did; it gave me the freedom to start up here and have more fun. I'm not saying "just give up," but instead, "go where the inspiration is." If you can't get it up for one story, maybe try putting chapters elsewhere? I find contributing to other people's makes me feel good about myself. As a final optimistic note, just like in comic books, there's value just in continuity sometimes. I hope that even the pieces you don't enjoy now, you can look back on eventually and say, "wow, I really put in the time and built quite a universe here." That was kind of a lot of random thoughts, but hopefully something in there helps!
I often talk, on this forum, about planning stories beforehand. It's my belief that a commitment to a story is of utmost importance if you want to end up with something that won't be disappointing to look back on later. That said, sometimes I do lose faith in my own writing. Flaws become apparent only tens of thousands of words too late. When that happens, I believe the best remedy is to leave the project alone. You can't magically give yourself the motivation to work on something that you know, or at least think, is going downhill. It's called the Sunk Cost Fallacy: you've put two years into a story, but over time, you've come to the conclusion that it's no longer fun to write or read - or maybe it never was in the first place. "I can't just quit now!" you cry. "Surely I need to be committed to my writing?" The truth is, it's too late. Your commitment was doomed the moment you introduced whatever factor made you lose interest; you just didn't notice the effect straight away. Adding more to a project you no longer like doesn't somehow justify your previous work. Either the stuff you've already written is good enough for you, or it's not. Continuing it won't change that. Maybe you've realised that your writing quality for half the story is unfixably terrible. Maybe you've vastly underestimated how many chapters you need to make your Game Mode system work. Maybe you thought the basic concept had a lot of cool directions to take it in, but it's actually rather bland and linear. Maybe the plot you set up was silly or boring. My point is, if you plan a story beforehand, you can notice a lot of these issues before you type a single word. Then, you can prepare for the speedbumps; or better yet, fix them immediately; or if you can't deal with them, scrap the idea entirely, and waste practically no time. If you've lost confidence in your current project, don't just start on the next idea that pops into your head, or you'll eventually lose confidence in that one, too. Figure out if a story is something you actually want to bring into existence before you do so. TL;DR: If you often lose confidence in your writing, don't try to save a project you dislike. Instead, plan your next one in advance. You can predict issues and deal with them now, instead of having a hundred chapters of baggage to deal with.
First, Wilparu, you are one of the first authors that stood out to me on this site. I admire how much thought you put into, and how much you care for your characters. I have had a few ideas about writing dark and twisted ideas, that once I have invested in developing the characters that these things are supposed to happen to, I don't want to do those things to them anymore! Then I ask myself if Wilparu feels that, too. As for feelings about what I've written, I feel mostly good about it, particularly when I have a browser open with 10 chyoa tabs and I start reading one at random and find it really interesting, not realizing it is mine for a couple paragraphs. I had to back away from my game project for a few months to let the cloud of branching path ideas settle so I could see what the story needed again, and in part, I suddenly found it very hard to write any fantasies about manipulation or exploitation of women after hearing some real-world reporting of actual accounts of it. That was a real boner killer. But no worries! Now I am back and ready to write weirder shit than ever. Like MidbossMan said, taking a break from my primary story to contribute to someone else's really did feel invigorating.
While I think a bit of self-doubt is healthy and normal, people are often their own harshest critics and ignore the positive feedback they're getting too easily. When readers say they like your writing try to trust them! In my experience, people on this site are honest when it comes to criticism and they'll tell you if something doesn't work. There were two instances in my story where I published something that on retrospect I wasn't exactly happy with. Then a few of my readers commented and expressed similar thoughts, so I was able to change direction and rewrite the chapters to suit me more. I'd also echo the advice above to take a break from writing what you currently are if you find you can't enjoy it. Maybe a little time away will help you look at the idea with new eyes and realize it wasn't as bad as you thought. This could be a whole separate discussion tbh, but I really don't think this works for everyone as a rule. Maybe it is more efficient to have a strict plan but people write in different ways, especially when publishing on an informal basis like on this site. I try to have a basic idea where my stories are going but know I couldn't plan everything out because so much changes about them as I write and make progress. I think up new ideas, get new takes on characters and incorporate reader feedback and ideas. Maybe what I said above demonstrates why that isn't the optimal way of doing things but if I had to plan exactly where my story was going I would never get anywhere and even if I did the plan would disintegrate as soon as I actually started writing anyway. People's feelings can definitely change about a work as they write, and just because you planned it doesn't mean you're not going to lost interest in it later. It'd happen much quicker for me if I couldn't be spontaneous and introduce new ideas I hadn't thought of before because tugging one string would upset the whole design later on. I'd feel way too constrained by the limits I was placing on myself. Of course if you're doing a game mode story that all goes out the window and you need at least a flow chart or something, but that's a whole different kettle of fish.
I'm always unhappy with what I write. In my short time here on CHYOA, for example, my process has been pretty lengthy. I start by writing a chapter, then I edit, then I revise and then rinse and repeat. I always end up posting it after I am tired of all the above, not because I'm finally happy with the product. It's the way I've always written so it is nothing new with this platform. It's also why I don't write more.
So many amazing thoughts and excellent ideas, thank you all! I'm going to respond fully later when I'm not, ya know, at work (at my kitchen table, but still ). The concrete suggestions are wonderful, and just as helpful was hearing from other writers who have that tickle of doubt about their work too. I mean, I assumed most do, but it's soothing somehow to read about it
I probably should have written that as, "It's [also] my belief..." I believe it's important to maintain confidence in a story, if you want to be left with something you're happy with. A plan is one way of accomplishing this. Similarly, what ceset suggested - reading often - is another method. A plan doesn't work for everyone, of course, and it doesn't work all the time, but I think many authors underestimate the benefit of planning. Spending ten minutes to organise your ideas can really help you foresee hidden issues that might demotivate you a hundred chapters down the line, by which point you would normally have sunk so much work into the project that you feel guilty giving it up.
That's excellent advice and I should take it heart. I think, when I started writing I had so much to improve on and I felt like I got better with every story. And then, suddenly, for this story I didn't get that same sense of improvement. BUT, that doesn't mean it didn't happen, just that I didn't *feel* it. And growth isn't a linear thing, I'm not killing bats in a RPG where every dead bat is exactly 5xp and I know I need 200xp to ding level 8 or whatever. Damn rights! These posts, and a message from a writing friend, really shook me out of my self imposed funk and I'm committed to not only finishing my story (it's very close) but working harder on it. And I'm going to stop focusing on immediate feedback from CHYOA (which will be hard, I love it lol). That absolutely helped and I realized that feeling like my Likes was lower than I "expected" was a big reason why I started looking for flaws in my story and then obsessing over them. I do have a couple of projects on the go so I'm going to focus my energy on my Affection Multiplier branch as it's the one I'm more excited by next. The sunk cost fallacy is a great point. Luckily, my current story is almost done and a smaller story (for me) and it's only 17 chapter and maybe 35k words. I do have my original story where I wrote myself into a corner with a tale well over 100 chapters long that ended up in a very bleak place for my main character and I've left her in a miserable depression for months now because I can't bear to think about her situation anymore but that's a separate issue. I'm a big fan of planning too, not the whole thing and I don't write detailed outlines but before I start a story I like to imagine the end, and at least a couple of interesting things to have happen. The rest will happen organically, which is fun for me but it is kind of my problem here. I had an end in mind that was very tied to the plot and hinted at subtly (I thought) from the start but when I got close I realized I preferred a different ending. But then I felt trapped by my own story, while being unwilling to branch it off and make drastically different paths. Also, that'd be sooooo much work lol. =D OK I'm going crazy here, will respond to more posts in a bit!
First of all... wow this is the most incredibly sweet thing anyone has said about my writing in ages! Thank you! That compliment alone rejuvenated me. I do put a lot of thought into my characters and you are 10000% correct in that I often realize, too late, that I don't want bad things to happen to them anymore when I'm halfway into a story. I *like* some extra-naughty stuff sometimes, and I enjoy 'rough' stories, but I can't write them myself apparently. I told myself in my Affection Multiplier branch I was going to have the MC create a sexy harem in his workplace and then I fell in love with his love interest and decided to have him tell her about the magic mind control thing the next day. And now they are zany rom-com couple in a sci-fi story and I'm so much happier. So yeah, I also feel you on the subject of 'dark and twisted' ideas and not being able to simply ignore the real-world when crafting my erotic fantasies. This could be a whole 'nother discussion, but I've realized that my enjoyment of 'dark and twisted' fiction does not mean I need to be *writing* it, no more than being a huge murder mystery novel fan means you can't prefer to write high fantasy. Ok I'll stop now, but trust me I could go on and on and ON about how I'm leery of having certain themes or plots in my stories because I find it icky but I also don't judge others for doing it at all. And I can read the occasional non-con story and find it quite exciting, but if you asked me to write a story about that with any of my characters I'd freak out lol. Now, selfishly, I'm going to go find your story. I wonder if I'll be able to see when you start to shy away from letting truly bad things happen to and by your characters
You're quite right, and even a day later after I wrote an embarrassingly self-pitying authors note on my latest chapter I realize I was too harsh, and down on the story for the wrong reasons. A few very nice readers were generous enough to give some positive feedback and I basically sneered at them in disbelief because I was all whiny that my story didn't end up progressing how I thought it would. Or it got a few less Likes than I wanted. That is excellent advice and I'll remember it from now on! That's honestly the sort of discipline I wish I had more of. I write the first draft of my chapter in Scrivener, give it a quick glance for obvious typos, then paste it into CHYOA. I can just *barely* muster the energy to give it one quick read before I submit. Then, I read it again an hour later and see several missed spelling mistakes, repeated words or especially clunky grammar. Which sucks because the people who seem to really like my stuff and follow it have already read the crap version, and over the next day I read the chapter several more times and often find other imperfections or just think of more elegant ways to say some lines. So they get the shitty version, which is too bad. Why can't I force myself to let a draft sit there for an hour or two and then read it with refreshed eyes? I have no idea, but I think my junkie-like need for instant Likes is part of it. As to you, I wonder if ultimately just hitting publish because you're too weary of re-re-re-reading the draft isn't ideal either? Could you set yourself a goal of doing x full editorial scans before submitting? Just if you want to increase your output, that is. If you're finding stuff to correct (not just tinker with stuff that could be either way) on the last passes then maybe it's the better way, but the way you describe it makes me wonder if that's the case. I know when I proofread a draft I'm lazy about it and often end up skimming over the same couple of paragraphs at the end which means I just miss the same huge error like 3 times. :\
I'm a weird writer. I plan the basic outline of what I want to add to someone's story at the beginning of my process but just a kinda barebones plot. Then I'll normally write a very stripped down version of a chapter or two in the morning before work on a text document in Notepad. Then it sits in my story folder until I get home. When I get off work, I proof it, expand and revise it to add more detail. Then I putter around the house doing chores and stuff for a while, come back and repeat. The only tool I use during all this is Grammarly and it only works when I paste it into the CHYOA window. I don't trust myself to start my own story yet because I'm afraid I'll obsess over it too much. Adding to other folk's stories gives me a natural chapter limit and only makes me feel responsible for my own small branch. I've tried putting both a time and a proof/revision limit on things I write in the past for other projects but I always hit that and think it's horrible and needs more work. The only time limits have succeeded was with my college creative writing class because of the hard deadline of turning the assignment in. I wouldn't call myself a perfectionist because I never get there but I try really hard until I tire of the process. I've come to accept this is the way my muse works.
It is good that you (and almost everyone else here) have high expectations for your writing. This is the biggest area to take pride in, as writing 'talent' is largely subjective. All of us are at different points in our writing career, and some excel at one area that others struggle at. It's natural to want to be critical of your writing, but it's important to take pride in your high standards. Second, always take pride that you got the ideas out on paper (or screen, as it is nowadays). You mentioned output. Remember, literally everybody that lives and breathes under the sun has as many ideas, muses, and inspirations as you do. Now, look at the number of people producing content. Right: most people don't have the motivation to manifest those visions; most of the rest don't have the persistence to see that work through. You're in a small percentage of an intellectual class, that alone is something to take pride in. To be honest, it's what made the biggest difference in enjoying my writing, realizing the fact that it's at least something i pushed out into the world, kicking and screaming. Last but not least, if you can enjoy the editing process, you'll be more positive about your writing. Our society today fosters a false sense of 'natural, instant grace'. This is the effortless quality of social media posts (that really took hours to compose), the 'natural beauty' of an Instagram image (that was staged and shot deliberately), and the Youtube video that seems "homemade", but involves tons of cut and edited content. Text messages are instant, spoken word is irretrievable. Writing is not. Writing is a slow process wherein you get to revisit, adapt, edit, and then do it again. You mention embarrassment in the editing process, but you took the time to go back and work on it. You caught the awkward wording or grammar error; that's what counts. For me, deciding to be a proud writer was a purposeful (but not quickly realized) attitude change to facilitate my writing. Without that attitude, i would just have given up and stopped writing. So now it feels exciting when there are elements of a story i see can be improved on; it feels good to rework a lackluster section. Part of this is taking positive comments to heart, bolstering my spirit from likes, follows, etc.
Proofing and editing can be tough, though generally I like doing it a lot. I think most of us can empathise with that whole process of writing a piece that excites you in some way (be it feeling you wrote something well, or you've finally gotten to a interesting point of the story, or that you're updating a story at all) and then posting it as quickly as possible to get it out there to meet the world. Everyone is really just saying some perspective is important, but your feelings are still valid. You probably understand that most creatives feel the same way, and we can be real drama queens in our own heads I mainly started writing here just to write. For my first few contributions I deliberately minimised the amount of proofreading and editing I did. Two factors 'motivated' me to do this. 1) was that I think I can write pretty coherently in a first draft, and depending on how it flows while I'm writing it, am generally pretty confident the piece is a decent read and communicates the idea I had in my head. 2) was that I actually didn't really care to make it top quality writing. Coz of the subject matter, my personal standards for these pieces were somewhat skewed. I wasn't trying to build deep characters or construct complex stories, I just wanted to put down some sexy sex sex. My process is a bit different now, and I am more self-conscious about every piece I work on, but I understand that perfection is only something to aim for while achieving it is only ever an ongoing process. When I go back to any of my stories and read them, I don't think I hate anything. Maybe I'm just a bit up myself. I mean I can pick out mistakes and think some things are silly... but in the end I don't care that much coz I know that it's not completely trash. Hating takes so much effort. And I know I have put my effort into other things. I put effort into the writing, despite my less than stringent process, because this isn't the first thing I've ever written. Every chapter, really, is a culmination of all your effort from everything you've ever written before that. Be critical of yourself, but don't be down on yourself. You did a lot of work to get to this point and it shows.
Almost a year now and, while I am aware that this is necromancing, the votes still paint a picture in a way. A large majority dislikes their own writing compared to the other selections.
Most of the time I’m fine because I tend to write for myself and only myself, but sometimes I can have an out of body situation of sorts when writing if I’m not personally into the topic that I’m writing. Sometimes I go back later though and I’m fine, or sometimes I’m in the moment so when I go back it doesn’t hit the same and I’m like wtf did I write? It comes with exploring and as I like to explore with my writing. Sometimes I’m completely unfamiliar with a subject and I just learn through the experience so I might not feel as satisfied at the end.
What’s funny is often the ones I don’t really have a connection to are the ones that others love the most. Which I guess I mean there’s always going to be someone who enjoys it I suppose.
