Like Fishing: Good, Bad, Indifferent?

Recently, there has been a debate about if asking for likes in a chapter is a fair way to get into the top chapters section in the suggestions area. I feel that debate is not apropos to that area, so have created this thread.

The basic argument is weather top chapters should be decided by straight vote numbers, and it's fair to get them by anything short of sock-pupeting, or if asking for votes in the chapter is somehow cheating, because it garners disproportionate votes for chapters that are not really "Top 10 Quality"...

Let the debate begin...

 

I'm against it but just voted "no", I'm also against banning things people don't like.

 

The poll is already not objective, because many people will have a different opinion on what is and is not a "fair tactic". ;-)

 

Well, to extend this, there could be the additional question if such a note should be mandatory.

 

By definition asking people their opinion is subjective. What is judged fair by someone is... What they find fair. The poll will answer not if it is fair but if people find it fair.

 

Well, I think the term "Like fishing" implies something negative.

 

I think I can add that.

No poll is "Objective". I tried to phrase it with as much neutrality as I could.

 

All is fair in love and warfare. If you give a crap about being in the Top Ten 10 Chapter "fishing (In the form of begging/asking for likes or even for Followers)" is totally fine. The readers already got there, many of them simply don't press the Like-button until told to, this is not different from Youtube for example. People who try doing Youtube professionally or take their hobby way to serious will ask for Like, Share, Subscribe and evidently people react to it, because a lot of people are fucking lazy. Nothing bad comes of this, nobody is hurt and if you are VERY serious about getting Top Ten without begging for it occassionally, well, okay but you gotta write a chapter that really makes people, even those who usually just read until they run out, stop for a second and click that button. That is not most people.

Likes have their primary source in two things, I believe: Reader Numbers and Reader Mentality. If you can not rely on the Numbers and the Mentality is "lazy as Sloth himself", begging/asking is the logical conclusion if you want to motivate at least a few. I think with the introduction of One Top Chapter per Author/Story combination the Top 10 Chapters have become what they should be. Only thing I would now want is a Weekly/Monthly category but that is another beast entirely.

When you want to be the best you are either talented enough to make it there by building a bridge, have the perfect timing when the water is low or you wad through the mud with the rest of us. I am not going to yell at the guy who uses a rope to pull himself towards the nearest safespot when I am to stubborn to do the same.

 

I went ahead with "I Have No Opinion, I Just Like Voting."

Because there is no indifferent option in this poll. Likes do not matter.There's too many factors that go into likes other than quality of writing(what they should be about) for them to matter. There are plenty of well-written stories that don't get the likes they deserve and other stories that are super popular that probably shouldn't be. If people want to ask for likes, then that's fine. If they don't want to ask for likes, that's fine too.

 

I don't care overmuch, and definitely don't think things like that should be 'banned'.

I will say, though, that 'Like Fishing' takes the reader out of the story. So by doing so, while a person/story may get more artificial 'likes', they are also making their story worse - less actually 'likable' in reality, even if the numbers reflect the opposite.

I don't enjoy seeing 'like fishing' in other's stories for that reason - not because of any effect it has elsewhere, but that it is distracting and a detriment to the story.

It's not a *big* malus to a story, mind you, but it's there.

 

I voted it's fair but I think the top chapter list should be abolished. So yanno...

 

I think a better term would be "Call to Action"

 

I voted Yes.
I've never seen anyone ask for votes in a chapter (I do it in the story description so it's always there in the top-right corner...)
If I don't like a chapter, I'm not going to give it a like just coz someone asked, indeed, if it gets annoying, I'll probably be less likely to leave a like...

 

I also think that "Call to action" is a much more neutral term, as "like fishing" sounds similar to "fishing for compliments" or other terms, which have a slight pejorative twist, as if somebody would try to lure people to click "like", although they actually don't want to.

In my opinion, centering this debate on the "top 10 chapters" or any ranking is jumping too short. Likes are more than a competition, and I strongly believe that everybody who just gathers likes to rise in some statistical ranks should go somewhere else. Facebook for example, or Instagram. Likes are, just as comments and "follow this story for updates" clicks, more or less the only feedback us writers will ever get for our stories (maybe except for comments here on the forum, or the occasional PN in our inbox). While I consider "likes", per se, as rather unimportant, I see feedback as very important. We don't write these stories for ourselves. We write for an audience. Maybe there are some of you who don't mind at all what the audience thinks, but in my opinion, feedback matters. It feels good to notice that your stuff is being read and being appreciated. The best reaction are always comments (or Personal Messages), and I for example have started to concatc other authors when I love their work. But those are really hard to get, and it probably needs a fellow author to share these. Likes are easier.

Yet, despite being easier, a lot of readers still forget them. They loved a chapter, they might enjoy the plot or the story, they might have gotten aroused or started to masturbate, but while being so entranced and focused on reading, they certainly have else to do than to click "like". Even I myself quite often observe this reaction. Chapters I REALLY like are those where I click "next chapter" most eagerly. I don't really want to stop. I often make an effort after having reached the end of a story to go back and belatedly hand out likes to chapters I enjoyed, because it's the least I can do.

Call to actions at the end of a chapter can make readers aware of the simple fact that they can give a little bit back. It's not even a tip. It's the grateful smile of somebody we just made happy by giving him directions in the city, or holding open the door for them. It's just a token of gratitude. Some readers might have never thought about it. They don't think about how much effort it must have taken to write a chapter, chart a story, plan different branches. And rightly so - why should they? But some do react after being nudged, or winked at or smiled at, or whatever metaphor you want to use for these "call to actions".

Some here mentioned that they hate these paragraphs because they distract from reading. That might be true, especially given what I said earlier about how I myself sometimes forget to hand out a like, because I am captivated in the story. On the other hand - is it really a distraction, if the author talks to you in a footnote? If said footnote is marked clearly as something different (set in italic, etc.), then you can easily ignore it, just as you ignore the blinking ad at the bottom of each chapter, or all that other stuff on the site. I personally like it, if an author talks to me. I love to read acknowledgements at the end of a book, or a brief personal chapter. Obviously, tastes are different, of course.

Yes, I do occasionally use this "call to action". My important rules are that I never bluntly and pushy ask to Like!Like!Like! my chapter and mine alone, but instead raise awareness how handing out likes makes authors on CHYOA happy. Not only me, but probably everybody (even those here who say they don't really care). Granted, the chance that they will click "like" on my chapter now is higher than that they will do it two days later at someone else's chapter - but I strongly believe that they might remember, at least a bit. My second rule is that this "call to action" is, hopefully, written in a smooth, entertaining way, maybe even picking up some aspect of the story. It should not feel like an annoying advertising sign, but like something clever, personal. A message from the author.

Not only do I see "like fishing" NOT as cheating, I actually think that we all as authors would help and support each other if we'd do it more often. It's good to raise awareness among readers. Especially in an environment where so many people work dedicatedly and passionately for absolutely no money.

 

Number 3 in voting for I have no opinion, I just like voting.
There are indeed many factors to determining why a person votes, likes, and bookmarks a story. Writers can ask anything to readers doesn't mean most are going to listen. It just gives writers a friendly reminder to readers to give something in return for reading. A comment, a vote, bookmarking, following, you name it.

 

While fishing for likes has a negative connotation, Call to action is far from neutral in my opinion. It implies that the reader would do a good action doing it and playing on that to make them hit the button.


I don't know if you noticed it but in most stories with such disclaimers, rather than awakening consciousnesses on the thing the only result is a spike of likes on the concerned chapter.

In my opinion it creates an imbalance between the 0.001% of chapters with them and the rest. And it makes it impossible for the author to know if people hit the button because they liked the story, were told to do so, or felt that the author wanted it so much that they gave him one on this chapter.

 

Some here mentioned that they hate these paragraphs because they distract from reading. That might be true, especially given what I said earlier about how I myself sometimes forget to hand out a like, because I am captivated in the story.

Just me... I think : )

On the other hand - is it really a distraction, if the author talks to you in a footnote?

Not a ridiculous distraction, but yeah, kinda. I mean, you said it yourself.

If said footnote is marked clearly as something different (set in italic, etc.), then you can easily ignore it, just as you ignore the blinking ad at the bottom of each chapter, or all that other stuff on the site.

Banner ads are different, and people are very used to ignoring them by now, and they are not imbedded in the text that *is* the story. It's harder to put a message from the author who's story you're actively reading out of mind.

I personally like it, if an author talks to me. I love to read acknowledgements at the end of a book, or a brief personal chapter. Obviously, tastes are different, of course.

In this case the author isn't separating a chapter out to say something personal or interesting or give a background to their mindset when making the story.

I will note that putting such a reminder into the 'sidebar' or whatever that thing is called is quite a good compromise.

I will also note that I again am not saying having a footnote is a huge detractor or blemish on a story. Its a minor thing, and at worst a minor annoyance (or a neutral non-annoyance). Unless its spammed every page, that could be more annoying.

But... the story should come first, and having created something slightly *more likable in reality* is better than having some more 'likes'.

Yes, stories are made public for an audience. So... the audience (and story) comes first.

 

@Javalar As one of those people who write for themselves and don't care that much about my audience I can tell you that, while likes are not my primary motivation, I am not going to say 'No' when I see them. I mean, I publish this stuff after all. It is nice to get some form of recognition for the effort I put into this shit.

I am pretty much just here to quickly support your argument.

 

Yes I like fishing, especially for walleye and pike.

 

Smartass.