My Problem With Fan Fiction.

Hello. My name is Merkros.

You might recognize me from my writing in stories such as A Fantasy Dynasty and my currently rather short branch in GenericEditor168's story Mutata Draco. I haven't contributed to any other story and the other two stories that I own are crap.

However, I'm not here to talk about my writing. I'm here to talk about another subject: Fan fiction.

I've been thinking a lot about fan fiction lately and even considered doing some of my own. There's just one problem with this. I don't really like fan fiction and I've spent the last several days wondering why.

There are very many interesting and popular settings out there which a fan fiction could prosper in. To name a few...Middle-Earth, Star Wars, Bleach, Dragonball, Touhou, Tower of God, Tamriel, etc. Many of them such as Lord of the Rings, Star Wars, The Elderscrolls and more all have deep and rich histories that really play well with a self-made story.

So why is it that the vast majority of fan fiction falls short? There's so much deep and rich story potential out there. Surely even an amateur writer could pull it off well. That got me thinking about my personal experiences with fan fiction.

The vast majority of my experience with fan fiction is from Doujinshi manga. That is amateur manga that more often than not falls under fan fiction. Except I have an odd thing with Doujinshi where if i have seen or read the original source material; I can no longer enjoy it as much as i had. It just stops doing it for me. I took a liking to Monogatari Doujinshi. The Monogatari Series has a large number of varied and sometimes fantastical characters that really took my interest, but after I started reading the light novels. I stopped reading the Doujinshi. My interest in them died completely. A similar thing happened to me with Spice and Wolf.

So...why is this happening? I think it can be attributed to a few things.

1.) Fan Fiction is Inherently Selfish: I don't necessarily mean this in a bad way, but it's ultimately true. Fan fiction isn't written for me or you. It's written for the person who is writing it. Often it encapsulates events and ideas that the writer would want to happen(usually suddenly) rather than it happening in a gradual, logical manner. The writer writes fan fiction that pleases themselves. They may post it online for others, but ultimately it serves their own interests.

2.)Fan Fiction focuses on established characters...:Ultimately Fan Fiction, Especially those of an NSFW nature, focuses on what if's of the characters that already exist within a setting. Their interests often involve Character A and Character B or Character A and their OC(original character) getting together. This is done by any means necessisary. They focus on things that have already happened to established characters and...

3.)..often it's done very poorly: Since a Fan Fiction often focuses on the writer's own interests and focuses on established characters, it means that a "good" Fan Fiction has to write already established characters believably. This...doesn't happen often to say the least and I think it's one of the bigger reasons why I stop reading Doujinshi after I have read the source material. Often the story involved with fan fiction either doesn't make sense or doesn't portray the non-OC characters in a believable way.

4.) The OC(if any) are often Mary Sue(or Gary Stu)'s: When people write their own original content for a setting. Often these stories will feature their own OC as a Mary Sue(or Gary Stu for a male). If you have been around on the internet for any period of time, then you are probably familiar with the term Mary Sue to describe a character that has no significant flaws, no real character development, that everybody reacts positively to and everyone falls in love with. Often these characters are at least partially self-inserts of the author. Since Fan Fiction is Inherently Selfish, It makes sense that there would be a plethora of stories with OC's that are Mary Sue's. The problem is that these characters are often too perfect and since there was never any real danger to them anyways; all of their victories or conquests don't feel earned or deserved.

5.) Long Fan Fiction tends to degrade into constant sex: This is obviously more of a problem with NSFW Fan Fiction than regular ones. While many fan fiction is just one short story or chapter, others tend to go on for longer and these tend to degrade over time. Fan Fiction is Inherently Selfish. So what may have been a story at first is often bastardized and destroyed in favor of a more instant gratification approach for the writer. Since Fan Fiction focuses on established characters and they are often written poorly, this means that as the fan fiction drags on the personality of the characters involved become just this sort of soup of sexual fluid.

6.) Ultimately the Setting Doesn't Matter: Typically you need two of three things to write a decent story. Characters, Plot, and Setting. A great story is one that has consistently good and well-written of all three. Those are rare though and usually you'll only see a decent story with two of the three. The best setting in the world won't save you from poorly written characters and the best characters in the world won't save you from a poor setting. Conversely, good characters and setting can save a poor plot and a unique plot and setting can save a story with relatively poor characters. Unfortunately Fan Fiction focuses on established characters and often does it very poorly and Longer Fan Fiction tends to degrade into constant sex rather than have a coherent plot. With two of the three categories already a disaster, the setting alone isn't going to save it. Which is unfortunate, because with such deep works as mentioned near the beginning part of this thread; the setting is the easiest part to write. For Fan Fiction, the setting is already written by somebody else far more talented. However, Fan Fiction is inherently selfish and often the Mary Sue OC already has whatever they need to solve the Plot. Thus the Setting is never really explored.

So why do I stop reading Doujinshi after I have read the original material? Well, often it's because the fan work disappoints me. I find that the actual story written by the actual author is deeper and more interesting and seeing such shallow representations of it is disappointing. Often the characters don't feel the same. Their traits and flaws are exaggerated to an extreme and just feel kind of campy. They don't feel like true representations of the characters that they are depicted. There's also the fact that the self gratification that the writer gets is often so obvious that it hurts.

What would I consider good Fan Fiction? It's a hard question to answer easily, but essentially the best fan fiction would be a story that doesn't feel like fan fiction. A story with its own unique characters and own unique story that explores a pre-established setting and where the already established characters play a peripheral part of the story. It's fine if you want that chapter where you're banging Aragorn or sucking off Legolas or knocking up Galadriel. As long as it fit into a larger narrative.



So this was originally going to be an end to what i can only call a Rant about Fan Fiction, but writing through this got me thinking. A lot of the flaws that I see with fan fiction is also a lot of the flaws that I see with story contributions on this site. Often these stories lose focus on the plot and setting to focus on characters that may have already been introduced and Mary Sue OC's and collapse into an orgy of sex eventually.

In a way, we all already are writing Fan Fiction. The original content and setting are provided by the story own and then we all provide our own interpretation of the stories and characters and settings. So...the next time you're writing for a story remember: You are a Fan Fiction Writer Too

 

Isn't any story that is written online or offline more for themselves then some audience. Even biographies can be skewed to what the author is wanting. This might be the reason why authors are suicidal after all they are all selfish.

Sadly true for online stories

Sadly true and even if they do create a character that has a name that fits it always ends up lacking true character development. Even for non-fan-fic you will see this too on variant degrees.

In the end yes we all are.

 

You might be right, but there's a number of reasons why people write. People write to better themselves, as a creative outlet, because it's fun, or as a job. For Fan fiction, they take a already written story or a game or a film and they say "This is what I want to happen" "This is my fantasy".

Perhaps a more accurate description would be that Fan Fiction is the most selfish form of writing.

 

I have a whole other set of issues with fanfiction and if it seems weird having me telling this you will understand soon.

I saw all of those stories (Naruto, Bleach, star wars, etc...). The thing is that I have a problem with names and even for things that I have personally read or watched, when seeing it in written form I have no idea who more than half if the anime characters described are (without checking online).

Some settings too don't really adapt well to having tons of sex injected with it.

And as far as writing some myself I always consider that I do not know enough about the base material to correctly portray things.

Until one day I wrote something that some people described to me as fanfiction which was a surprise to me.

The thing was that I once again wouldn't have felt comfortable writing in the established universe and have the characters fuck each other. So I did something else.

The manwha The Gamer is about a boy one day getting video game styled powers and discovering a secret world around him. So I kept that, and threw away the rest. I changed the main character, changed the geographical setting, didn't keep any established characters and wrote a story inspired by the original source but where the boy getting these powers uses them to have sex (but not only for that, keeping a big part of the focus on adventure and world building)

My question would be, does it qualify as fanfiction?
I'm not an expert in fanfiction, having rarely managed to read more than a few chapters of it, so I have little which with to compare my work.

 

Nop

 

Thanks, I feel a lot better now.
I can now say (without exception) that every instance of fan fiction I ever saw (as limited as it is) seemed to potentially match the stuff listed above but I never some of it long enough to see the long term degradation.

 

1) Disagree on fan-fiction always being selfish. Plenty of people write stories for the enjoyment of others and this does include fan fiction and just because some of fanfic is self-inserts and other wish fullfilment by the writer it does not mean that all of it is that.

2) Established characters are often the focus point of fanfic because, it is fiction about the show/book/whatever and therefore the established canon characters are important part of the original stories that the fanfic is based on. There are also stories that merely use the setting and have all OC cast as well.

3) 90% of anything is rubbish. Since fanfic is easier to put on net than it is to publish a book or to make a TV show this means that the selection process that is supposed to eliminate the worst of show, books and other "professional" fiction do not exist and that's the main reason why bad fanfic is so easy to find. Anyone who wants to write and can put their work on one of the many websites for fanfic can do so while editors and publishers would throw away their works. This elimination process does not always work, exhibit a: Fifty shades of grey. At least Twilight (exhibit b) is a better love story than that one.

4) First you complained about using established characters and now you complain about using original characters? As for why such bad characters exist I refer back to 3) and note that self-insert characters do exist in professionally made works although less commonly due to editors doing their jobs.

5) Back to 3 for why bad quality fanfics exist. Eager but poorly talented writer can do a lot of bad fic while those who understand their limits will do a story that they think is decent and try not to go too far. Besides, I've been reading fanfic recently and have seen some of the (rare) examples of good long fics and have to say that the few good exeptions are worth going through the rubbish to find them.

6) is mainly based on earlier complaints so I'll just dissmiss that one by pointing out that if you judge fanfic purely based on the worst examples then there's really no point to debate with you. There are bad books with bad characters, story and setting as well but I'm not going to argue that all books are bad.

I suggest looking for a place like Archive Of Our Own and picking stories that are well rated to see if there's fanfic that you like, instead of merely choosing stories by random.

 

Okay, well since there's no point in this discussion, then i won't bother responding to all of your points. Thanks for saving me the time.

If you didn't want to have a discussion on it, then I'm not sure why you bothered even replying.

 

Did you read the rest of the message?

 

I read all of it and I'd love to respond to all of it, but if there's no point to debating with me, then there's certainly no point in debating with you.

I recognize a pointless internet argument when I see one.

 

I like Turtles. Every time something feels wrong, i think of happy turtles. And just like that the world looks a little bit brighter again.

 

Well, in an attempt to get the discussion back on a more constructive course and against my better judgement, I'll go ahead and respond to @raziel83's post. They can choose to respond or not depending how much the debate's worth.

Typically when someone writes a fan fiction and posts it online, they do it for the enjoyment of like-minded individuals. It's less for the world at large and more for those who share similar interests. Are there exceptions? Of course there are.

The problem is often less the fact that the Established characters are the focus point and more the fact that it's the story's only focus. For many Fan Fictions, you could take the character interactions out and place them in a black void and they would be equally relevant. With the characters as the primary focus, the flaws in the writer's attempt to write a believable depiction of that character come more and more into focus.

Also I've already mentioned that in my opinion a story that uses the setting and an OC cast with maybe some established characters in the peripheral is how I would prefer a Fan Fiction to go.

I disagree with the notion that something shouldn't be judged because it wasn't professionally done. As proven by sites like Chyoa and Literotica and many other amateur manga/comic sites, it's possible to make or write a story that isn't fanfic. It's easier now than it has ever been in the past. With that said, even among amateur sites, fan fiction often stands out as notoriously bad. It can't just be because the person writing it is an amateur.

There's a pretty clear difference between decent original characters and Mary Sue-like original characters. As for the rest, I'll refer back to my response to your #3 as well.

As I mentioned in the first part of my response. Of course exceptions exist, but they wouldn't be exceptions if they weren't unusually good.

If all you got out of that last part was that it was a culmination of earlier complaints, then I'm not sure I can make it more clear. Most fan fictions fail at two of the three things you need for a passable story. Plot and Characters. Since they already usually fail at that, it doesn't really matter what Setting it takes place in. As i mentioned in my response to your number two. For many Fan Fictions, you could take the character interactions out and place them in a black void and they would be equally relevant.

This is the part where I got rather irritated at your post's subtle condescension(whether it intentional or accidental).

I don't "choose stories at random". Like everyone else who reads regularly, I choose stories that i think are relevant to my interests. However I will take your site suggestion into account the next time i'm looking for something to read.

Turtles are the most glorious of creatures.

 

I didn't say that fan works shouldn't be judged. I said that fan works haven't been screened the way professional works have been. Hopefully the worst rubbish that professional writers have made ended up on the cutting room floor while fan works very rarely have an outsider screening and helping the writer. And that is why fan works are more likely to be rubbish. My point is that there are some good fan works as well but you need to dig a bit more to find them.

 

7. Relevence

I think the real problem I have with fan fic is relevance. When you write a story in fan fic it gets an expiration date on how long it will be relevant to a reader.

For example. There is a stargate sg1 fan fic on here and I thought I used to like that show. Star wars, yeah I liked it but it isn't about newer characters. Harry potter. that was a couple of years ago not counting the cash grab fantastic beast and how to fuck them. Naruto, saw a few episodes but never got into that show. Friends. Boy that was long ago. Etc... Same with celebs who get a slightly longer run but ultimately those stories fade in place of newer celebs.

 

"I Like Turtles."

LOLed so hard I almost fell off my chair.

And the actual answer to that question?

Yes, you are making sense, laser clear, crystal focused: sense.

 

I have always been apathetic towards Fan Fiction. The closest I have ever gotten to writing Fan Fiction was when I would write stories set in the Warhammer 40k universe which I guess was fan fiction in the most literal sense since I was a fan and was writing fiction in that world. However I never tried to write a story about Gaunts Ghosts, thankfully.

The Fan Fiction I have enjoyed is the stuff where they make a major change to the setting. Evangelion is a good example. There is the great Re-Take which puts the version of Shinji from the very end of the show back near the start with all his knowledge and character development intact. Its a interesting twist and the writer used it to wring some solid drama out of things.

On the lighter side is the Fic where Shinji grew up as a massive 40k fan. It is silly and works mostly because it takes a dumb idea "What if Shinji modelled himself after the God Emperor?" and runs with it.

The kinds of fic's I find uninteresting are the ones that try to act as either part of the main story or a continuation of it. It's more true with things that had a really clear authorial voice. Discworld is a good example, I had no interest in fan fic for it back before PTerry died and have even less now. He made that world and I really don't think anyone could ever match up.

I am glad Fan Fic is a thing, when you are starting out you need to find something to write about that you feel comfortable with. Steven King started out transcribing stories from magazines and Terry Pratchett was a avid Fan Fiction writer.

Although the funny thing is that since I started really writing I have pretty much stopped reading other peoples stuff.

 

On the bad side of fan fiction you get fifty shades of gray which started as a fan fic of twilight.

 

and we thought fan fic here was bad. fifty shades of gray should never had been accepted by a single publisher.

 

Let alone turned into a trilogy.

 

I just changed my vote to "What Drugs are you taking?", because whatever they are; can I please get into this medical trial?