Copyright / Plagiarism

  • Thread starter Thread starter Cuchuilain
  • Start date Start date
C

Cuchuilain

Guest
What's the general view on this?
I see that there is a thriving community of "fanfics", so I guess we are not particularly bothered about borrowing characters / storylines from recent, existing works.
What do we think about lifting large slabs of text though? Are we ok with it as long as the source is credited, or do we respect the USA version of copyright (ie 95 years since publication / anything prior to 1928 at the moment) and ignore other jurisdictions.
I'm guessing it wouldn't be ok to stick large chunks of Wolf Hall or the latest spy-thriller in one of my chapters, but could I get away with Dylan Thomas or Hemingway?
 
As a practical matter, you don't have much to worry about. You're not making a profit from anything you post on CHYOA, and the holders of copyrights aren't likely to make a stink about it even if they discovered you were using their works. Furthermore, you are (presumably) anonymous; no one knows who Cuchuilain really is, so who are they going to sue? If it ever came to a legal matter, the CHYOA website owners would be the defendants, and they would resolve the matter by simply deleting your stuff.

I suggest that you include an option off the Introduction where you cite all your sources; just a list of things like "The text in this chapter (link) is taken from the poem Do Not Go Gentle Into That Good Night, Copyright © 1952, 1953 Dylan Thomas." But, I doubt anyone will even notice.
 
I know of a site called mcstories had a cease and desist letter years back from I want to say marvel or some other big name now they no longer accept any new fanfics of any kind. It all depends on the group I suppose.
 
I am not a lawyer.

But what is the real question here? Surely you don't need to post huge chunks of another piece of literature as your own story, do you? Or are you making something along the lines of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies where the majority of the piece actually is the original text, and you're just adding a thin veneer of adult entertainment to it?

Fan fiction is a different beast (though still possibly controllable under copyright -- characters are intellectual property). But fan fiction is usually written as more of a spinoff of the original, not a re-treatment.
 
Cuchuilain said:
What's the general view on this?
Click to expand...
written content:
4. No Plagiarism

all content:
Copyright and DMCA Policy
(Possible exceptions from laws and regulations might apply.)


Cuchuilain said:
Are we ok with it as long as the source is credited
Click to expand...
No.

Xenolan said:
If it ever came to a legal matter, the CHYOA website owners would be the defendants,
Click to expand...
The person who publishes content is responsible for it.


zankoo said:
Surely you don't need to post huge chunks of another piece of literature as your own story, do you? Or are you making something along the lines of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies where the majority of the piece actually is the original text, and you're just adding a thin veneer of adult entertainment to it?
Click to expand...
In regards to Rule 4, a violation might consist of a few unaltered lines, paragraphs of slightly changed text, the detailed retelling of a story, or anything too close to source content to lack originality.
 
zankoo said:
I am not a lawyer.

But what is the real question here? Surely you don't need to post huge chunks of another piece of literature as your own story, do you? Or are you making something along the lines of Pride and Prejudice and Zombies where the majority of the piece actually is the original text, and you're just adding a thin veneer of adult entertainment to it?
Click to expand...

Yes - Pride and Prejudice and Zombies was very much the kind of thing I had in mind when I asked the question.
I've started a piece with classics, altered to contain erotic content. (https://chyoa.com/chapter/Introduction.133197) . I've started off with a Checkhov story (well out of copyright), but I was wondering whether I could get away with something a little more contemporary. Looks like the answer is no. So I guess the only bit to be clarified is, specifically do we go with USA copyright rules - at the moment 95 years from publication. (1928 and earlier)?
 
I am still not a lawyer. But in my (limited) experience dealing with copyrighted materials, there are a few things I've seen.

One is that the X number of years since publication isn't always reliable. Some pieces get their copyrights renewed and/or extended. So more than just assuming that X number of years is good, research to find out whether it's in the public domain.

Two is that there's a certain amount of repurposing of copyrighted material that is allowed under the "fair use" umbrella, particularly when satire or parody is involved. Typically, this is used for, say, writing new lyrics to a familiar song, or some of the looks-like-it-but-isn't-it comedy of Mel Brooks's Spaceballs, for example.

Is an erotic re-imagination of a recent novel considered parody? I don't know. This is where my not being a lawyer means I don't know anything else.
 
I suppose there is a whole tradition of porn parodies in the movie world, that probably breaches tons of copyright. (Meet the Fuckers etc) Most of them don't even bother to change the name at all. Presumably they breach all over the place, though maybe not with dialog so much.
You're right - do the research for individual pieces. I think I'll use the test that if its on Project Gutenberg its fair game, if not then I'll bottle it.
 
There seem to be enough ways to be inspired by existing ideas as long as the necessary conditions are met.

zankoo said:
One is that the X number of years since publication isn't always reliable. Some pieces get their copyrights renewed and/or extended.
Click to expand...
Not sure about that.
As far as I know, you can now draw a famous mouse in black and white but can't use colors.
 
I haven't yet become a lawyer, not since my last post.

Also, I'm not pushing back on anything here, only adding more information. I know blogs and message boards can easily lose "tone of voice" and turn a civil conversation into a flame war -- which is absolutely NOT my intent.

It appears that the "95 years" thing isn't universal, at least, according to this page. And a little further reading would suggest that laws vary from country to country.

And according to two different Wikipedia links (here and here), there seem to be a number of factors that may or may not apply to various sources, with the number of years something is protected ranging quite widely. Specifically, there's more information about Mickey Mouse here.

Point being the same as many posts above mine -- do the research and see what's protected and how.

One likely reality to bear in mind is that CHYOA is hardly a threat to intellectual property. Yes, there's a "no plagiarism" rule, and yes, plagiarizing is illegal (as well as ethically and morally wrong) -- but this is user generated content for a user built community that (most likely) has zero impact on anything. I suppose the holders of the copyrights on LOTR or PowerPuff Girls or whatever might come sneaking by, but if anything, that's going to yield a cease and desist before it ever goes to any kind of lawsuit.

I know bigger sites like YouTube will instantly close channels if there appears to be a breach of copyright (even without any kind of due process) ... but from what I've seen, the folks in charge of CHYOA are much more interactive and communicative, and I would expect (though never assume) that there'd be at least a DM or something that says "hey, your porn take on The Amazing Adventures of Kavalier and Clay has raised some eyebrows ... if you can't take it down in a week, I might have to do it myself."

I hope posters above me don't read this as an argument -- it's not. I'm just trying to further what I see as an interesting discussion topic.
 
Appreciate that.
That was why I was saying I would take Project Gutenberg as the deciding factor on whether something was in or out of copyright. ie just let them work it out rather than relying on working it out myself (and possibly making a mistake).
My other question that you mentioned Zankoo was just to confirm who's copyright rules we follow. As far as I can see PG and CHYOA are probably both working to USA rules overall, so I guess that is where we're at. Happy to be corrected if I'm misunderstanding that though.
 
Fanfictions per se are also a violation of copyright laws but most companies and authors don't care about it. There have been some examples of authors who used their legal rights against fanfics, like Anne Rice
But usually, they don't care enough to send cease and desist for fanfics because most companies see writing stories as harmless. Most examples of authors against fanfics are for works that originated in literature because the original work and fanfic share the same media, and still most authors don't give a fuck, even if they don't personally like or approve fanfics.
It is more common for other fan creations like fan games.

Anyway, about your idea of rewriting something existing to add sexual scenes, maybe you could try to create a fanfic just with those sex scenes and don't repeat the parts that are exactly like the original media and between your chapters indicate that in between happen so and so from the original work, with just a small resume. After all, most of the time, fanfic's readers have already watched/read/played the original work, so repeating the same thing without changes could be boring.
 
Last edited:
So just as an example to see what happens when big companies get involved in fan works. A few years back, the furry artist Kuroodod got DMCA'd by Nintendo. Their most popular comic was a pokemon comic that used various eeveelutions. For sex things. (link, NSFW).

Their Patreon account was suspended and in their journal entry on Fur Affinity (link) they noted that they were ordered to remove depictions of their fursona(which is an anthropomorphized Raichu(Link, NSFW), and a number of comics that also involved Pokemon from their Patreon page before it was unsuspended.

Most notably and relevant to this discussion, it was allowed for those images to be made and posted on free NSFW websites. They just couldn't make it premium content the artist made money off of.

So the statement here from Nintendo seemed to be "It's fine to make fanworks of our characters, but don't make money off of it, or we'l come for you."
 
Nintendo is famous for being a company that is very strict with the use of its characters in fan creations. Recently a Youtuber receive a cease and desist from Nintendo due to trying to finance a Zelda BOTW Online Mod, and once he try to fight it Nintendo directly claimed the copyright of all his gameplay videos. They have also struck down fangames, while there are other examples of companies like Sega that are more friendly towards that.
My point is that in copyright laws, all the power resides in the copyright owner. There aren't any rights recognized by law for fan creations, not even fair use (which some people misbelieve to allow it). So, a company could allow it, and others could not, and even if the company allows it, they can change their mind at any moment.
 
That's part of the reason why i used it as an example. Nintendo is very restrictive on their IP and depicts what is probably the worst-case scenario for a typical copyright situation involving fan work.
 
Cuchuilain said:
Yes - Pride and Prejudice and Zombies was very much the kind of thing I had in mind when I asked the question.
I've started a piece with classics, altered to contain erotic content. (https://chyoa.com/chapter/Introduction.133197) . I've started off with a Checkhov story (well out of copyright), but I was wondering whether I could get away with something a little more contemporary. Looks like the answer is no. So I guess the only bit to be clarified is, specifically do we go with USA copyright rules - at the moment 95 years from publication. (1928 and earlier)?
Click to expand...

The link resolves to someone else's story. I think this is the right one for yours? https://chyoa.com/story/The-Greatest-Stories-on-CHYOA.53110

I like your CHYOA profile link to a story chapter with jump links to your stories and contributed storylines.
 
I began what is my longest running story series years ago, as a strictly-for-myself sequel to a naughty Space Pirates / Cabin Boy fic I had read, and enjoyed, but didn't have with me at the time.

Later, when I realized I still had stuff to write about there, that I was wanting to share with a wider audience, I managed to contact the original author. I explained the situation and he was happy I had liked his stuff enough to take it somewhere, and graciously gave me permission to publish, so long as he was credited. I credit him and his story as my inspiration in a short disclaimer on each submission.
 
I typically thank him by name, and his story by title, note the specific points carried over, and that I do so with his kind permission.

That said, the story concerned (Awakening) while archived on several sites in serial format, does not appear on CHYOA. At least, not with my permission. ;)
 
Last edited:
Zingiber said:
The link resolves to someone else's story. I think this is the right one for yours? https://chyoa.com/story/The-Greatest-Stories-on-CHYOA.53110

I like your CHYOA profile link to a story chapter with jump links to your stories and contributed storylines.
Click to expand...
Keep in mind that the example does not require any copyright contemplation because the original work it is based on was published in 1887, and the author died in 1904. That means The Kiss is a public-domain work. It would be okay even to copy text from the original work due to its public-domain condition (wich, in fact, is done on that story, the first chapter is copied directly from the original).

The same could be argued about other classical works mentioned in that Story, like Romeo and Juliet. Someone could copy and paste Shakespeare's works making modifications to make the story lewder. But that person must be a very good writer if he wants to try to adapt classics like that, or else the difference between him and the original author will be too noticeable.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top