What do you feel is the difference between an Erotic story and a story with Erotic elements?

[Jinraider]

This is a random question that popped into my head as I've been writing. What separates an Erotic story (i.e. porn stories) from a story with Erotic elements? Is there a difference at all? If there is, where is the line?

Certainly, the fact we are writing on Chyoa means we are putting a level of eroticism into our stories, but when I think about what element I've personally included in my chapters so far, I can't help but wonder what I could classify my one as. One could argue the inclusion of sex, fantasizing about naked women, or guys jacking off would immediately brand them as Erotic stories, but there are plenty of published books with such elements that many would not classify as porn. And maybe it's just me, but I feel it's wrong to immediately brand any story that makes mention of these kinds of things as "erotic", considering I imagine a large portion of the population has indulged in these from time to time, even if you don't bring it up at Thanksgiving or whatever.

So I'd be interested to hear what others have to say about this.

 

[Gatsha]

The first dictionary definition I see, which also seems to be common, is:

"relating to or tending to arouse sexual desire or excitement."

So, I tend to think of it as about the intent. Such acts are generally socially unacceptable to talk about in an open setting, to begin with. If a writer goes out of his way to describe (for instance) a man's inability to stop mentally undressing the woman in front of him, there are two conceivable reasons:

1. Non-erotic: The writer is trying to establish some characteristic of the man. In this case, you'd generally expect limited description in the text as to specifics of his imagination. The author doesn't want you to share the man's fantasy, just know that he's having it.

2. Erotic: The writer goes into detail on the man's fantasy, and it becomes clear that in this case he is a vessel for the reader to imagine the same thoughts. In this case, the intent is clearly to arouse, aka erotic literature.

Then, if most of the story is like 2, you'd classify it as erotic literature, where the point is to try and arouse. If only part of the story is, you could argue it was just an erotic part of the story, where perhaps only that part was intended to arouse (such as a story where an erotic part is included to keep the reader's attention until another different kind of exciting scene, such as action).

I agree that a story shouldn't automatically be considered erotic for including details as you've described, but I'd also argue that such scenes would generally be considered disturbing or off-putting to the reader if included without the clear purpose of arousing. This is basically the same as why you don't see many written or film works showing characters going to the bathroom, even though you know the characters must do it in the course of the story: if there's no reason, it's just wasting the viewer's time and good will.

 

[Jinraider]

So, I tend to think of it as about the intent. Such acts are generally socially unacceptable to talk about in an open setting, to begin with. If a writer goes out of his way to describe (for instance) a man's inability to stop mentally undressing the woman in front of him, there are two conceivable reasons:

1. Non-erotic: The writer is trying to establish some characteristic of the man. In this case, you'd generally expect limited description in the text as to specifics of his imagination. The author doesn't want you to share the man's fantasy, just know that he's having it.

2. Erotic: The writer goes into detail on the man's fantasy, and it becomes clear that in this case he is a vessel for the reader to imagine the same thoughts. In this case, the intent is clearly to arouse, aka erotic literature.

I can definitely understand where you're coming from here; there's obviously a difference between, say, porn and racy scenes in a sitcom.

But I was also wondering how one would separate things in the murky middle ground between the two; I'm pretty sure there are many examples on both sides where they skate extremely close to the other side (i.e. the "porn with plot" phenomenon for the former, shows with explicit scenes for the latter). For some examples that I know of: for the former, there was a hentai manga I read the other day where a guy finds a whistle that arouses the daughters of this specific family he's living with, which he accidentally uses and eventually causes them to fall in love with him. Similar to The Affection Multiplier on this site, he mostly used it with consent from the girls, and essentially wooed them on his own merits (Chad energy aside). For the latter, you have something like To Love-Ru (and especially To Love-Ru Darkness), which seems to be contractually obligated to show a tit-shot every chapter; obviously, it's titillating, but it's not quite "hentai" per-say. (Note, I don't want this discussion to become explicitly about manga and fanservice, these are just examples that I'm most familiar with).

I can also agree overall with your reasoning as to why such elements should/should not be included due to pacing with the story, but that begs the next question: If someone wanted to write a power-fantasy driven story about how this definitely not self-inserted protagonist goes around, beats up baddies, and blows the pants off every girl he comes across, where does it stop being a story, and instead becomes an erotic story (putting aside the discussion of how well the thing is written in this case)?

 

[Gatsha]

Anime/manga is my wheelhouse too, so I'll frame it this way (but the example should also apply to other media):

I think there are a number of examples of shows that are "battle anime" or "sports anime" with titillating "fanservice" either liberally or conservatively used. But even where this "fanservice" element is large enough as to make it present in every other scene, I wouldn't consider it makes a story an erotic story. Instead, if the story generally follows as a battle anime, I'd consider it "battle anime with heavy erotic elements."

As opposed to, if you watch a hentai that frames it as a battle of good and evil but it transitions to a prolonged and detailed sex scene, it's clearly erotic as a genre, with battle elements.

Basically, it depends on what is the meat and what is the dressing. I think it's rarely so ambiguous as to prevent one from making a call.

That said, labels are labels. They're only as useful as they help the person using them for classification. I don't think there's any point drawing a hard line, just in making the label distinct enough that it applies when people need to use it. If someone wants to watch Keijo and call it an erotic anime, or wants to defend they're watching it for the laughs/sports element and won't stand for it being called erotic, to each their own. Not a fight I care to be in the middle of!

 

[Dissonant Soundtrack]

As international sex symbol Justice Stewart once wrote "I know it when I see it." There's no clear dividing line, because authors and viewers draw that themselves. They may not even see eye to eye on it. For example: Zach Snyder thought the movie Sucker Punch was meant to oppose objectification of women, but that's not why a lot of people (myself included) watched it.

If I was seriously evaluating it, I'd ask:
1) Do the characters have any goals other than making sex at each other?
2) How much time does the writer/storyteller devote to chasing those goals vs. the sex scenes?

 

[insertnamehere]

What separates an Erotic story (i.e. porn stories) from a story with Erotic elements? Is there a difference at all? If there is, where is the line?

What separates a sci-fi story from a story with sci-fi elements? What distinguishes a comedy story from a story that is sometimes humorous? Where is the line drawn between romance stories and stories with romance?

The difference is the main theme of the story. If you had to choose one definitive genre for the story, would it be erotica or would it be something else? If there's something else more important to the story than sex, it can't really be called a sex story and not a story with sex.

 

[JWtts]

I'd look at definition comparisons between "erotica" and "erotic romance". Even though CHYOA stories are not always about romance, and you may not be writing a romance, I think the definitions might apply to the original question: What is "the difference between an Erotic story and a story with Erotic elements?"

Basically, an 'erotic story' is a story in which whatever is going in your plot, the purpose of the non-erotic scenes/chapters is to get to the next erotic/sex scene. The story can still have a beginning, middle, and end, but the outcome or general plot doesn't have to be as important as the erotic bits. It can, but it doesn't have to be. The sex is your primary focus, even if it's a 51/49 split, but it probably needs to lean more toward the sex parts.

On the other side, 'a story with erotic elements' is one where the plot/story is the more important part or at least has heavy focus, but the characters may engage in erotic activities, however X-rated or not, throughout the story without breaking up the natural flow of the plot. To me, this is more character or story focused and the sex or erotic elements are flavoring to the story, but not the story's purpose.

Obviously the lines can blur between the two and some may argue that it depends on the level of detail or description (porn versus softcore or Rated R type stuff), but I think it depends on your purpose, at least when it comes to writing on CHYOA or other erotic story sites. Publishing a mainstream story will have more rules and nuance.