Does Something Need To Be Done About The People That Repost?

[Nemo of Utopia]

I've been noticing that there are certain authors that delete and re-post their own stories so as to have them go into the new stories section a second or even third time. Now this would not bother me half as much as it does if I didn't suspect that they were also plagiarizing the content submitted by other authors when they do this, though I have nothing more than a gut feeling based on the numbers I'm seeing in terms of chapter depth and the like to support that accusation and I freely admit that which is part of why I'm also naming no names...

But, even so, these ARE NOT 'new' stories that they are submitting, they've been published before: my question here is not 'What should we do about it?' but 'Should we do something about it,' at all?

I await my fellow author's thoughts...

 

[gscmar64]

I don't mind them doing it as long as the original contributor is given clear credit either at the beginning or the end of the immediate chapter in question. No credit to me equal out right thief!

 

[gene.sis]

Well, if someone plagiarizes other author's work while having their approval, I don't see a reason to stop it.

 

[grimbous]

Seems to me to be two totally separate issues there. On the one issue I am vehemently opposed to any sort of plagiarism, approval or no, and it should be stamped out in every way possible. But I know I'm a hardliner on that one.

On the issue of making an old story "new" again I do find it unfair to those that have their actually new stories bumped off of the New Story section. Those initial few days of extra exposure are always nice for a brand new story, especially to the newer writers on the site that don't have a following yet. I can't tell if this is done on purpose or if they were trying to do something with the story and it ended up on the New Story section again. I'm not even sure how it is possible honestly, I notice sometimes new stories have comments on them that are months old. Seems like a glitch or something.

 

[dingsdongs]

My 3 cents on the topic:

---

I actually commented on a story and "accused" the author of simply re-posting existing content from another website.

I probably wouldn't have felt as strongly, if he had also created new chapters of his own, but it looked like the author was just copy & pasting the content, and the original story had over 4000 chapters.
Even if he claimed to have permission from the original author to re-post the story: It felt to me like "cheating" the system. He was getting attention, likes, and front-page coverage for content that wasn't his. If the author had continued, we could possibly have a "new" top 10 story by now.

I know it's silly, and if you think about it, "likes" of course don't matter at all in the grand scheme of things. You can't buy yourself anything with likes, you can't eat or drink them. They are like the proverbial "e-peen", a measurement that doesn't really matter, expect to make you feel good from time to time. An encouragement for weak-minded individuals (like myself) to post more content to get their daily fix of likes ;-)

The author replied to my comment with a personal message, explaining that the site, where the "original" story was hosted on, was heavily pay-walled, and that he wanted to make the story available to a wider audience. He wrote that the original author didn't have the time to do it, but gave his approval, and that he also make slight edits to fix mistakes, cut of too short branches that lead nowhere, etc...

Now this made me feel bad. Comments are there to stay, and I almost felt like a bully, who attacked that noble person, who only wanted to help preserve the great work of another for the benefit of humanity.
Still, i couldn't help it. I still felt like my critique was valid.
Nevertheless, I wished the author good luck and motivation with this endeavor. Since then, he hasn't added another chapter to the story. Am i a bad person? :-(

---

Over the past weeks i believe to also have seen many stories, which appear to be re-posts (because it says so in their descriptions). I also have the impression, that those stories don't get updated a lot, and simply disappear in the depth of the chyoa database. They are there, if you explicitly search for them, but otherwise you probably will never see them again.

I know that it is obviously good for the website to have more content. More content equals more potential readers and writers.

Still i don't approve or like the re-posting (as in copying) of stories which aren't your own.


---

Making old stories new again: I have seen this once or twice as well. I guess not a big deal if this happens only very rarely.

 

[grimbous]

This is something I feel very strongly about. I would really like to see this site come down hard on all forms of plagiarism. Zero tolerance would be my ideal situation. Whether it is stuff posted "with permission" or slightly edited versions or modernized versions or whatever. If your name is on a chapter that chapter should be your original work from top to bottom. Self-plagiarism and collaborative chapters within chyoa might be acceptable in certain limited ways, as long as they aren't abused.

Plagiarism simply isn't cool and I believe it reflects poorly on the site and the writing community here.

 

[Nemo of Utopia]

I've got to disagree with you on this Grimbous, though only slightly: the doctrines of parody and public domain "fair use" exist for a REASON, several of them actually, and most-if-not-quite-all of them valid ones. Your hardline stance has some merit to be sure, but it stifles the psyche of a culture from laughing at its own flaws and checking its own assumptions and origins. Besides, present laws regarding copyright give ample protection to authors and other creators regarding others using their creations for purposes antithetical to their values, in fact, they do so long after the original creator's death, so I would advise you to calm down and consider the broader ramifications of such hardline stances.

Why just earlier today I had to effectively rewrite a submission to one of my stories to make it clearly intelligible, is it now my chapter, or his? I was just the editor, I took his words and reordered and reorganized them, but when I was done they were frighted out of their proper sense, or rather, back into it. Was I wrong, or just doing my job as an editor?

You can see the problem now, cant you?

 

[grimbous]

We're not talking about law, or at least I'm not. I'm talking about Chyoa policy.

And obviously the work of being an editor is fine, as long it is at the behest of the author and under the name of the author, why wouldn't it be?

 

[Nemo of Utopia]

Well, but you see, it's no longer wholly their own work is it? They are now taking credit for a pice that is only half their own efforts, and no, he didn't ask: I insisted as a condition of the chapter being added to my story, didn't feel it 'made the grade' otherwise. But this is just the tip of the iceberg, collaboration, fictionalized true events, historical pieces, classical retellings, modernized myth-cycles, where's the line between 'inspiration' and 'plagiarism'? And whose job is it to draw and redraw that wavering and indistinct line ever finer and more exactly: your's, mine, Friedman's, Kaitou1412's, someone else's? Honestly, I only trust two people on that list to do a good job of it and that's because one already is and the other is me, which would NOT result in the hardline stance you desire Grimbous...

Changing the present permissive policy, no matter how you do it, inevitably involves stepping up enforcement, and we're having the devils own time with that as-is. I personally had to report a story just a few days ago for pedo content, and it had been front page for two days at that point! We are drowning in our own success as a site, the raw volume is attracting undesirable elements, and, face it, we're tiny, we're barely plankton size in an ocean of porn sites... So, don't worry about crushing every trace of plagiarism, worry about keeping the whole site from going down over a bestiality story getting past the moderators, savvy?

 

[gene.sis]

Owning the copyright of your own content allows you to use the content as you like, which includes posting it on different sites, selling it or let others use it as you wish.

I don't think there is a reason to forbid reposting stories, chapters or text passages, whether in original form or modified (edited, translated) as long as they have the permission of the original author.

So, you should rather focus on if there is permission of using the copyrighted material. (just stating the source doesn't give you the permission)

 

[grimbous]

I'm not talking about copyright, I'm talking about plagiarism. It's not a legal issue but a policy one. Obviously if laws have been broken moderators need to step in, but is that the only standard we have here? I seem to be in the minority, but like dingdongs, it just doesn't feel right to have people posting work that isn't theirs. I would really like to see this site be for original content only.

Since the content of the site is fiction there should be a clear policy on plagiarism. I would like to see chyoa take a firm stance on plagiarism. It encourages original content, gives more of a spotlight to actual writers, and, I believe, looks better for the site as a whole. If the policy is lax there is the risk of a slippery slope situation happening where chyoa is slowly flooded with copied content. If copyright is the only standard we have we may as well start cramming the non-erotic section with public domain classics.

 

[gene.sis]

I'm talking about plagiarism. It's not a legal issue but a policy one.

[...] let others use it as you wish.

All definitions and explanations which I found for the term "plagiarism" say that it presenting other peoples' work as one's own.
So the lack of stating the source of the material is considered plagiarism.
(Self-plagiarism is seemingly not considered plagiarism.)

From that definitions, plagiarism only takes place without copyright infringements when the plagiarist uses content with the permission of the original author but without stating the source of the material.


Because of the format of CHYOA stories and the possibility of different authors writing for a single story, I'd support a rule to mark every chapter of other authors' work — whether untouched or modified — with the source and a permission note and not just on the Introduction chapter. (That would also make it possible to identify original content of the author who posted the other author's content.)

It encourages original content, gives more of a spotlight to actual writers, and, I believe, looks better for the site as a whole.

What is original content? Does posting content on another site means that the content loses its "original content" status on all other sites it could be posted on?
I'd say that rather limits original content as it disallows authors to use more than one story sites to present their writing.
I only use CHYOA to read and write (at the moment) but there are surely a lot of readers and authors who visit a few sites regularly. Not allowing to reuse your own content on other sites would limit the users' freedom to decide which site they prefer.

Also, there is original content which gets translated into other languages. I can't see any disadvantage of that as long as it is permitted by the original author.

I'd say that rather limits original content as it disallows authors to use more than one story sites to present their writing.

Now, if an author allows others to reuse their work on other sites, it is their good right.
I think the question is rather "Did the original author really give permission to post their story on other sites?" because they could post their story here by themselves. (except translated content)

 

[grimbous]

All definitions and explanations which I found for the term "plagiarism" say that it presenting other peoples' work as one's own.

In my opinion, the name at the top of the chapter screen should be the name of the author of that work. I don't consider that too much to expect. It is them that will receive the "plaudits" of that work. Yes, I know, likes and faves and all that stuff are just silly little game tokens, but what is the point of gamifying the site? To encourage writers to write or to encourage more content regardless of source? If the answer is the latter that is fair enough and that is what the site then stands for. But it sure as hell leaves a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd say that rather limits original content as it disallows authors to use more than one story sites to present their writing.

In that quote I said "...encourages original content...", I never said anything about an author not being allowed to use their own material elsewhere. I admit I was extremely unclear when I used the term earlier in that post however. I meant original content as content originally created by the user posting it, not to original to the site itself. If E.L. James wants to join the site and post Fifty Shades of Grey, more power to him! But he should be the only one allowed to do so, copyright or no...in my opinion.

their good right.

Again, I am not saying they are legally forbidden from doing anything. All sorts of things are legal that aren't allowed on most websites out there. A site's policies regarding its content creates the environment that site wants to foster. I would like to see chyoa be a site that encourages its writers to write, not to copy-paste; or to have their original creations drowned out by copy-paste stories. Perhaps more content is all that matters, it appears to be the case currently. I'd like us to be something else and I am expressing it. I've said before that I believe chyoa has a ton of potential and I love being a part of it. Once more, this is a policy thing, not a legal thing.

 

[gene.sis]

In my opinion, the name at the top of the chapter screen should be the name of the author of that work. I don't consider that too much to expect. It is them that will receive the "plaudits" of that work.

If the name is at the top of the chapter but just below the user who posted it, I don't see a problem.
Well, getting likes for that (favs are not counted on a per-user basis) can be considered unfair as long as the content isn't changed.
In case of a translation, the user who posted the content actually invested time and work to do it and kind of earn them and that might also apply to a good editor. Someone who did just a one-to-one copy... well... not so much.

Though, tbh, I can't quite imagine that there are so many authors out there who would allow others to just copy their stories. I mean, they could just go to the site and post them by themselves! So why should the give that permission?

I wouldn't. If someone wants to translate a story of mine into another language, I'd probably agree as it would give readers access to the story who aren't able to read the original. But just copy it? No...

Yes, I know, likes and faves and all that stuff are just silly little game tokens

Noone does anything without expecting something. (That can literally be everything and not just worldly goods.)

I would like to see chyoa be a site that encourages its writers to write, not to copy-paste

I fully agree with that.

Once more, this is a policy thing, not a legal thing.

In terms of plagiarism, it's basically the same.
For the rest, I think it's rather necessary to find out if there is really permission to use the content.

 

[Nemo of Utopia]

This has veered excessively off topic!

 

[mindtheMILF]

I would leave it alone when it comes to plagiarism. This is the internet. Who doesn't copy anymore. If your heart is really into it maybe we should have more moderators looking over the work of others to clean up the site beyond just plagiarism.

 

[gene.sis]

This has veered excessively off topic!

Indeed, though I think the main reason for that thread is solved, isn't it?

This is the internet. Who doesn't copy anymore.

Sounds like a slim excuse.

 

[grimbous]

This is the internet. Who doesn't copy anymore.

Um...me?

I feel like Roddy Piper in They Live when he puts on the sunglasses. I suddenly realize the aliens are everywhere. Please tell me there are some humans left in here with me! LOL

I'm not sure how many more moderators would really be needed. Due to the sheer volume on the site most of the work would have to be done by the readers hitting the "Report" button.

As I mentioned, it is something I do feel strongly about. I do feel it reflects poorly on the site as a whole as well as those of us who publish our stuff here.

But I've said my piece. Peace out dudes.

 

[Nemo of Utopia]

This is the internet. Who doesn't copy anymore?

While I'll Cotten to using the lyrics of songs as chapter titles and sometimes I'll c/p names off of baby name websites for my characters that is the limit of the 'copying' I do. And I only use the song lyrics because those are what inspires the chapters.

 

[DoAdventures]

I feel I may fall into the category of the above - although my own work, my collection story has the very same chapters as my original three.

Now the chapters have been updated and fixed where applicable and where I found issue but they are pretty much existing chapters from the the first three stories (lots of new but predominantly old) . It was always my intention to perform an amalgamation of those stories and combine them but now I wonder how others feel about that?