Question about financing

SeriousBrainDamage

SeriousBrainDamage

Really Really Experienced
Hi,

I was reading the whole thread about the future of Chyoa and some questions came to my mind.
Since I didn't want to go off-topic and draw attention, I'm posting here.

(Disclaimer: as it may be evident, I'm really ignorant when it comes to patreon and other payment platforms.)

What I really don't get is: why one of these (patreon, onlyfans, subscribestar, etc..) is needed?

I understand that payment providers or whatever they are called enforce a rather strict policy regarding some of the themes we consent to here on chyoa, so why bother?

Wouldn't it be simpler to just have a PayPal link or something like that?

All the more, since there is no real need to have structured tiers like patreon.
Essentially the money would be just tips to keep the site going, right? So why not have just a link to send money?

I'm afraid there is something big that I'm missing here.

Also, I wonder: is the content on patreon, the content you unlock once you pay for a tier, embedded in a way you can't save it and share it?

I understand that would defeat the concept from hence the name, which would be that of helping artists, but I come from a time when internet piracy was rather well-spread, so I ask.

In the end, there seem to be a lot of artists out there who don't give a fuck about those earlier mentioned strict policies: how do they do it?
How do they get money if the whole electronic payment system doesn't allow them?

Or maybe they don't get any money at all, I don't know...:confused:
 
For your first question, I think there's a couple of things. That makes Patreon nice. The first part is that its a trusted system. People know that it's reliable and are more willing to put their information down to donate. It also has a system for automatic payments (which I don't think PayPal has). For PayPal, how many people are going to click a PayPal link on a porn site and feel comfortable putting their information there? Many people are quite leery of any kind of link or tool to enter financial information for fear of phishing scams.

Patreon also has easy to use systems for delivering and tracking reward tiers so you can give back to your community.

For your second question, yeah, like onlyfans I don't think there's really a lot stopping people from taking the content and reposting it. It would at best delay any leaks. I think that's less of an issue with writing than it is with say Art though....

The final question is probably the most complicated. I dont fully know how people like fenoxo can get 33k/ month on Patreon from games like Corruption of Champions and Trials in Tainted Space. Both of which have content I would consider Noncon and not get in trouble. The stories have defeat sex where the monsters pretty much rape your player character. I think it has to do with toeing the gray area between consent and nonconsent. They all have themes of "the PC doesn't like it at the start, but enjoys/begs for it/has an orgasm by the end... which I would say sends a worse message than straight up noncon, but what do I know?

If hematoma was still active on the site, I'd say ask them about how they manage it. They have posted many stories on Amazon (which also has strict policies on things) under the moniker Amanda Clover that have these sorts of noncon, but not noncon scenes. Including Princess to Pleasure Slave and Fertile in my Ex Boyfriends Dungeon. Two of their stories I have bought and greatly enjoyed.

For some of the smaller scale people, it could simply be that they haven't been reported yet. Keep in mind that Chyoa itself isn't exactly small and it's Patreon stayed up for a few years. So their system is very not automatic. It's possible that it either didn't get reported, or simply wasn't reviewed by the right person until now.
 
Thanks for your reply.

merkros said:
For your first question, I think there's a couple of things. That makes Patreon nice. The first part is that its a trusted system. People know that it's reliable and are more willing to put their information down to donate. It also has a system for automatic payments (which I don't think PayPal has). For PayPal, how many people are going to click a PayPal link on a porn site and feel comfortable putting their information there? Many people are quite leery of any kind of link or tool to enter financial information for fear of phishing scams.
Click to expand...

Makes sense.
Beggars can't be choosers, though.

merkros said:
For your second question, yeah, like onlyfans I don't think there's really a lot stopping people from taking the content and reposting it. It would at best delay any leaks. I think that's less of an issue with writing than it is with say Art though....
Click to expand...
I figured as much.

merkros said:
The final question is probably the most complicated.
Click to expand...

Yeah, well, if the answer is simply they slipped through the holes in the net of censorship by chance, that can't be a satisfying answer for anyone, Chyoa in primis.
 
merkros said:
For some of the smaller scale people, it could simply be that they haven't been reported yet. Keep in mind that Chyoa itself isn't exactly small and it's Patreon stayed up for a few years. So their system is very not automatic. It's possible that it either didn't get reported, or simply wasn't reviewed by the right person until now.
Click to expand...
Yes, this is mostly the case. The impacts of increasing censorship are widespread. For CHYOA, it's likely that an individual decided to report the website to Patreon, perhaps in a way that provided enough probable cause for Patreon to actually spend the time to investigate.

There's also the aspect of user-generated content. No matter what, CHYOA will always host content that is user-generated and not necessarily controlled by a source of authority. When one person is making art, or a small team is developing a game, they have full control over the content in their work. This allows them to inch as close to the edge of acceptability as possible without falling off (e.g. it's not really non-con, since the "victim" is clearly enthusiastic about it, even if her partner is being very rough and even if she tries to run away). It's also easier for them to say they'll modify the content to be compliant if the service provider has issues. On the other hand, the vast majority of CHYOA users don't care about the line, and aren't really responsible for the content they create.

SeriousBrainDamage said:
I understand that payment providers or whatever they are called enforce a rather strict policy regarding some of the themes we consent to here on chyoa, so why bother?
Click to expand...
It's basically impossible to exchange money over the internet without a payment service provider. PayPal is still a payment service provider and it has its own rules. Some of the censors CHYOA is having issues with actually come from Mastercard and Visa, so as soon as you pull out your credit card, you're subject to various restrictions.

This is more or less why cryptocurrency was invented - no person or entity has power over a transaction except the sender and the receiver (this prospect, of course, does not attract the most upstanding and righteous subset of the population). You can also personally deliver hard cash to Friedman's doorstep. Beyond that, every exchange of money is subject to the permission of a third party.
 
insertnamehere said:
Yes, this is mostly the case. The impacts of increasing censorship are widespread. For CHYOA, it's likely that an individual decided to report the website to Patreon, perhaps in a way that provided enough probable cause for Patreon to actually spend the time to investigate.

There's also the aspect of user-generated content. No matter what, CHYOA will always host content that is user-generated and not necessarily controlled by a source of authority. When one person is making art, or a small team is developing a game, they have full control over the content in their work. This allows them to inch as close to the edge of acceptability as possible without falling off (e.g. it's not really non-con, since the "victim" is clearly enthusiastic about it, even if her partner is being very rough and even if she tries to run away). It's also easier for them to say they'll modify the content to be compliant if the service provider has issues. On the other hand, the vast majority of CHYOA users don't care about the line, and aren't really responsible for the content they create.
Click to expand...

That's disheartening.

insertnamehere said:
It's basically impossible to exchange money over the internet without a payment service provider. PayPal is still a payment service provider and it has its own rules. Some of the censors CHYOA is having issues with actually come from Mastercard and Visa, so as soon as you pull out your credit card, you're subject to various restrictions.
Click to expand...


As I said, I don't know anything about this stuff. I'll take your word for it.
Naively, I thought you could have a Paypal (or similar) account and accept money in form of donations without having to explain why to anyone.
Silly me.:oops:

That would have still left Friedman with the problem of a lack of "structured" payment methods, like subscriptions, recurring payments, tiers, and such, but it would have been something at least.

insertnamehere said:
You can also personally deliver hard cash to Friedman's doorstep
Click to expand...
Well, I was thinking of the digital version of that.
It seems the only workaround since the content of Chyoa is de facto treated as illegal.
 
Thanks for your PayPal suggestion! According to the PayPal terms and conditions, adult content is prohibited, but can be approved by PayPal in writing, i.e. prior approval is required.

I will contact PayPal.

However, when I look at the development in the adult sector, I have little hope. Other adult websites have discontinued PayPal in the last years. I don't know if this was initiated by PayPal.
 
SeriousBrainDamage said:
Also, I wonder: is the content on patreon, the content you unlock once you pay for a tier, embedded in a way you can't save it and share it?
Click to expand...

I had a Patreon a while back and the answer is no. What you'd need is something like Steam generating a key and tying it to a user's account, but Patreon doesn't do anything like that. The higher tier posts are locked, but once they can see the content they can download the content, and then it is out of your hands.
 
gene.sis said:
A person who pushes the Send button is responsible for the content they make public by doing so.
Click to expand...
Theoretically, yes, but in practice, if CHYOA suddenly became flooded with underage content, it would be CHYOA itself facing consequences. The users publishing the content would, in the worst case, be banned from the site.
 
insertnamehere said:
Theoretically, yes, but in practice, if CHYOA suddenly became flooded with underage content, it would be CHYOA itself facing consequences. The users publishing the content would, in the worst case, be banned from the site.
Click to expand...
As it is easier to report content, this is the most probable approach.
But different approaches aren't impossible.
 
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