Two genres seem to dominate

Xenolan

Xenolan

Really Experienced
Perhaps it's just me, but it seems that over half the active stories on the site fall into one of two categories:

(1) Mind control or other means of super-powering the protagonist

(2) Incest

I guess I can understand why these two plot devices are popular in this format. The former seems a natural way to go for a story where the reader makes decisions, although having tried it myself I have found that when the protagonist has TOO much power it completely kills any tension in the story. As for the latter, it's something one can get away with in text more easily than other erotic media; in video and pictures, for instance, one must find performers/models who look sufficiently alike as to pass for family, while in prose one can just say they're brother and sister and that's it.

I guess my beef is that I really don't care for either of these types of stories. The problem with mind control and superpowers is that it doesn't place enough boundaries on the story; there's no room for real drama, no way for the protagonist to fail. It's just too easy, and that doesn't make for an interesting story. As for incest... well, I find it gross. I don't judge others who are turned on by it, but it's SO not my thing.

The incest thing actually seems to be a big trend in porn right now. I browse Pornhub from time to time, and the number of videos featuring parent/child (18+) or sibling pairings have skyrocketed. I really have to wonder, are there THAT many people who are turned on by this? Or, is the ghost of Sigmund Freud secretly in charge of producing content for these websites?
 
I'd say part of it is that both are sort of unreal element things that almost can't happen in a real person's life, and they aren't confined by genre or setting (time period, original characters, fandom if applicable, etc.) It's just the sort of thing people turn to fiction to see play out. But just like "becoming god," mind-control is just an easy skeleton to start your story's sexual elements from. I think there are good and bad ones in any case. I agree that if you start out at like max power, you lose some of the appeal... I like a bit of a chase or at least a period of self discovery. ;)

I'd also say ENF is about as common as either, for what it's worth.

Of course I'm cool with reading about mind control, ENF, or incest, lol, so I guess I'm okay regardless. :oops: But my advice would be just keep digging and you'll find the nuggets of things you're really looking for. I think we all acknowledge that a difficulty of fiction writing and reading like this is that, unfortunately, about 80%-90% will be stuff you can't or don't have an interest in. As much as I try to branch out, it still takes me a few before I find something that I really connect with.

If you have specific stuff you do like, maybe ask for recommendations for that genre and see if anyone can throw you any!
 
I wouldn't say that there are more active incest\mind control stories than enf\non-consent.

Mind control stories are usually boring because there are badly written - no conflict, no character growth, no plot. Just boring sex scenes
 
Folks come for the sex scenes... and stay for the plot.
Pun absolutely intended.
But yeah, Sigmund DOES rule the pornhub suggestion list, it seems, and as such, folks like getting off to their favorite formulas. Hence why I made a joke about kicking him in the nuts. You know, Politely... Course, I think that whole thing comes from separation from the parents and being raised by strangers, but that's a whole nother ball of wax and philosophy that the mainstream disagrees with me on, so... you know, ya really want to talk about the effects of communal child rearing on the developing psyche, especially if parents are put on a pedestal...

Porn, or as I like to say, the only job with "take your step-child to work day".

Mind Control never really interests me personally. Now, somebody resisting it? Much more interesting. Somebody trying to turn power against them? Much more interesting to me personally. But again, I'm a bit pretentious, and people come for the porn.

And that, I think is why so many people write Mind Control stories. They see somebody they want, and can't imagine any possible way to have them, OTHER than controlling their mind. You're better than that, folks! Come on, convention meeting, chance encounter... hell, I've always thought about turning that one time I door dinged Neve Campbell's Porche into a story, but what a LAME story to tell if it was just "I mind controlled her and we had sex right there..." Sorry, need a CRANE to suspend my disbelief on that story. Now, I apologize, get to know her over coffee because she just had a bad time on the set where we were working... Even though I was just a lowly extra... suddenly the story becomes much more interesting. There's already a conflict there, based off social class.
 
I'm inclined to think you notice more those two types of stories exactly because you don't like them.
On my part, I can't argue with the fact that mind control& godlike powers stories are the most boring kind.
They appeal to a lot of people apparently though.

Incest on the other hand talks about human the nature.
It's a primal taboo, dates back to greek drama.
One of the first rules of society was to not have sex with you relatives, hence the first and original forbidden sex is incest.
It's even in the Bible with masturbation and sodomy..
They are like the holy trinity of pornography.

If I must pick an overrapresente category myself, I'd go with freeuse.
I don't understand and neither like it, roughly for the same reason of mind control's type.
 
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The evolution of Sex Stories... as suggested by Seriousbraindamage and gene.sis.

Stage One: Mind Control- The object of desire has sex with the player character with no conflict whatsoever. There is very little need to take any consideration whatsoever in the victim's feelings or thoughts, and as such this is very easy to write. Especially if combined with simplifying the victim's personality as in a Bimbofication story. This ensures that the main character can indulge in whatever other material fantasies they are interested it, usually through use of the mind control power.

Stage two: Non-Con- Caveman hit woman on head with club. A bit more evolved, acknowledging at least that a modicum of persuasion/effort is necessary for sex. Blackmail and Free-use/societal enforcement of this is moving the violence/threat from the immediate to the secondary, but the threat of violence for non-compliance is still there. These stories often involve the main character in a status of power, allowing them to freely use the system to their own benefit.

Stage Three: Seduction- This involves the active changing of the object of desire's mind, which requires a LOT more work. This requires in the most simple versions, simply learning what the object of desire likes and providing it, but in the more complex negotiating a complex balance of double entendres, longing looks, societal rules, and general mucking about. Course, all this messing around can either improve immersion when done well... or bore the HELL out of the audience when done badly.

Stage Four: Realization- This involves finally realizing... it's your world, and you don't have to actually do any of this work if you just want to write hot sex stories. This usually results in someone writing Mind Control Stories for a while until they realize that they're not really achieving the immersion they want, and should probably try something else... hmmm, maybe have the victim struggle a bit...

:)
(In other words, I probably take this too seriously... and should write a mind control story one of these days. I mean, if I think it can't be done well, I SHOULD see that as a personal challenge. )
 
Incest and “incest”(stepmother, step-sister) will always be popular in porn just cause of the taboo factor. So it’s a no brainer as far as popularity goes. If you look at Patreon supported games as well, even with the rules in place, the most popular games will always be “incest” related games where you have a guy living with his “not” mom and his “sister”. I agree with SeriousBrainDamage and the whole greek tragedy thing, it’s also a little Freudian. I don't think its popularity is something that is recent.

Mind Control and Free Use is popular here because there really isn’t any exposure for it in western porn. It’s prevalent in some hentai and JAVs, but you don’t see it that often outside of some CLIPS4SALE specialty porn thing. I actually found this site cause I was searching for some Free Use content just cause it’s so sparse. I think people like it cause they have overactive imaginations. Like, you are in the grocery store or a dentist, see a hot girl/guy and just imagine what it’s like if you can control them or change the rules of engagement so you can have some control without it seeming too rape-y (even though, it kind of is rape-y).

I do think that most Mind Control/Free Use stories have this problem where the best part is always the discovery and beginning. Then it becomes the MC goes here and fucks this person and this person (though personally, I love reading that shit). If you look at Sexual Privilege (third most popular story), there is actually a huge problem with writers unable to get very deep into their stories (threads ending in one or two chapters) just cause they exhausted the writing. It feels repetitive (I know first hand).

I also want to say that for CHYOA, it’s about finding something different. If you wanted to read good writing, you read classics. There are probably better ways to get well-written erotica outside of CHYOA, but there are some things you can’t find outside of CHYOA like reading someone facefucking a person they just met in a ridiculous alternate reality scenario.
 
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FreeUse92 said:
I also want to say that for CHYOA, it’s about finding something different. If you wanted to read good writing, you read classics. There are probably better ways to get well-written erotica outside of CHYOA, but there are some things you can’t find outside of CHYOA like reading someone facefucking a person they just met in a ridiculous alternate reality scenario.
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Kidding.
But you're right, there absolutely are kinks and scenarios that CAN be explored here that you'll never be able to do so outside of Chyoa. At the same time, with great power comes great responsibility... and all that. I'm a fan of the John Wick school of gamemastering, which believes that players don't WANT you to be nice and fair. They want you be a total jerk, make them hate the enemies, fear for their characters... and still win. Which is a really hard balancing act. Try to toss in sexual excitement in the mix, and you're already looking at a tough job to do on the most basic level.

So, no judgement whatsoever on folks who have only want to write the simplest way to get to their fantasy. That's what this site is for! The actual freedom of choice as opposed to most games that only allow you to choose from what others have done/written. Don't like it? Write it better!

Or don't. You're perfectly free to write it full of spelling errors, simple grammar and dialogue that sounds like a third grade stop motion animation project, if that's what turns you on. Again, we don't judge here.
 
I've said it before and I'll say it again - do you want to write a good, sexy story? Or do you want to write porn? They are often mutually exclusive. You can't write "I had sex, then I had sex again, then I had sex again..." ad infinitum and expect that your story will be at all engaging in the long term. Sure, hundreds of readers might like that style, but hardly ever do they love it. You have to decide whether you want your erotica to be mere jerk-off material, or if you want it to be enjoyable no matter the audience's mood. You have to decide whether to affect your reader between the legs, or to affect them between the ears, as well.

I will echo the sentiment of others: many users, whether they are writers or readers, seem to believe a mystical god bestowing omnipotence upon them is more likely than them ever actually getting a girlfriend. Or perhaps they merely prefer the former scenario. Regardless, mind-control, free use and their ilk fit squarely in the 'porn' category above. There is no room for conflict or challenges for the protagonist; the other characters' thoughts and feelings are erased, resulting in zero meaningful character development; there is no unpredictability, as you are the most powerful entity around by such a significant margin. Now, there are ways of writing a substantial erotic story around mind-control. What if you weren't the only one with superpowers? What if you were the victim of mind-control, not the user? What if your use of mind-control has some drawback with which you struggle? The power fantasy is still present, but the protagonist is no longer all-powerful. That is the key to a quality plot.
 
insertnamehere said:
Sure, hundreds of readers might like that style, but hardly ever do they love it.
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I don't know if I can necessarily agree with that sentiment. I mean if you look at some of the better Free Use and Mind Control writers, they seemed to be well-loved and followed - Control Freak or Llation for example. I don't know if I can agree with the sentiment that if somehow there isn't good quality writing in SOME free use and mind control stuff. The popular and well-liked stuff always seemed to be written by people who know how to write properly and it's not like if you write "I GET POWER, I FUCK WOMAN", people will fap along with it and give you a bunch of likes. You still have to be able to engage people to the scenario to make them believe in the world of Free Use or balance the Mind Control aspect that it's not all-powerful HAVE-SEX-WITH-ME chant.

I just know in terms of literary themes and character building, they may be weak but again... I would rather read about more elevated themes by much better writers. I know why I'm here to read and it's not to enlighten my worldviews or broaden my literary intelligence, it's to scratch an itch. That doesn't mean you can't try to make your chapters readable and enjoyable as well. But again, this is CHYOA. Choose your own and all.
 
FreeUse92 said:
I just know in terms of literary themes and character building, they may be weak but again... I would rather read about more elevated themes by much better writers. I know why I'm here to read and it's not to enlighten my worldviews or broaden my literary intelligence, it's to scratch an itch. That doesn't mean you can't try to make your chapters readable and enjoyable as well. But again, this is CHYOA. Choose your own and all.
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Hmm... well, that assumes that erotica can't be literary... and that's a whole nother debate on the nature of art. You know, like how Roger Ebert famously claimed that video games can never be art. So, by that extension does that mean that online writing can never be art, since it falls under the category of interactivity, even if the entire point of the art piece is that interactivity is possible due to the format? Does suddenly pressing the words into dead trees make it more legitimate, or would speaking it aloud to an audience fulfill the requirement? Does cash and nude bodies covered in blood make things more legitimate if Microsoft promotes it? These are the kind of thoughts that kept me out of the really good schools.

To paraphrase C.S. Lewis in "The Screwtape Letters" Eventually, it's kinda pointless, and you can laugh it off and go to bed. Or jerk off as the case may be. The whole point is enjoyment after all. Some weirdos get enjoyment by pretentious philosophy and randomly debating weird mores on the internet. (Guilty)
 
I haven't been here a long time but for the brief time I have, it's become really apparent that there are all kinds of schools of thought. Makes me think it's really best to just write and read whatever works for you! ;)

Even the fact that we can have such a conversation proves the old different strokes, different folks adage.

Just recently, for instance, I found out about the split between people who want vividly described characters and others to whom that's a hinderance because they want the details fluid enough that they can picture whatever. The fact that people exist to push for both sides just goes to show there's no one right way.

So I guess what I'm saying is: just focus on what you like and maybe even beg (pay?) people to write more of it, but there's no reason to get frazzled over what you don't want to read. That's just the default state of an art/writing community, I think.
 
FreeUse92 said:
I don't know if I can necessarily agree with that sentiment. I mean if you look at some of the better Free Use and Mind Control writers, they seemed to be well-loved and followed - Control Freak or Llation for example. I don't know if I can agree with the sentiment that if somehow there isn't good quality writing in SOME free use and mind control stuff.
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Yes, that's why I said
insertnamehere said:
Now, there are ways of writing a substantial erotic story around mind-control.
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The issue with mind-control stems from the assumption that the protagonist is omnipotent and incapable of failure. This can be worked around by introducing some manner of conflict or restriction that takes away that omnipotence. Some stories achieve this. They are in the minority.

FreeUse92 said:
I know why I'm here to read and it's not to enlighten my worldviews or broaden my literary intelligence, it's to scratch an itch. That doesn't mean you can't try to make your chapters readable and enjoyable as well.
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And that's why I said
insertnamehere said:
Sure, hundreds of readers might like that style, but hardly ever do they love it.
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I mean, sure, maybe you do prioritise a story's ability to arouse you over its ability to elicit a range of emotions or its expression of perspective - in which case my precise word choice is technically incorrect in your case, but my point still stands. You can choose to write a story with sex scenes, or you can choose to write a series of sex scenes. Most people are only interested in the latter when they're horny. The former, however, has greater flexibility. Mind-control (etc.) stories simply require conscious effort and skill to have conflict; they do not come with any attached, unlike, say, the apocalyptic genre, which by default threatens the protagonist's surival.

I should add that there's nothing wrong with writing porn without plot. This is a porn site, after all. I'm merely pointing out a distinction that explains why something may be seemingly popular but ring hollow with you, personally.
 
This sort of turned out to be a kink shaming thread, just more polite.
I'll try to get back on track.

Personally, when I say that I don't like this or that, free use or mind control, insnt't for some kind of literary elitism.
Yes of course, the plot is thin, thinner as ever it could be here on chyoa, challenged only by those 'multiverse' stories like my whatever robosult etc.., BUT ultimately, I don't like those genres becasue a plotless story doesn'st get my rocks off, simple as that.
If I may sound harsh about it, it's probably cause of the frustration for the fact that all who write that stuff could instead write the kind of stuff I like.
Could work the same for others.
Of course, no judgement over who likes or writes them.

I'll throw another dice.
I understand that, in the debate between romance><mind control, one is very real, maybe not always common, but surely it attains to the realm of possibilities of everyone, while mind control,free use, godlike powers etc... are pure fantasy.
You'll have hard time finding something like that to tickle yourself in other medias.
This alone rehabilitate the generes for me, as I find that the most important function of Chyoa is to explore unexplored or unexplorable(by other means) fantasies.
So, ultimately, I do understand the popularity of the generes very well.
It sometimes annoys me? Yes, because I'm lazy and that means I'll have to search more for stuff I like:oops:
 
Lot of good thought here, straight up. Honesty and uncensored opinions? Holy shit, I'm in heaven even if I disagree with people!
Since we're going with that, I'll just note something that I see in long running stories in GENERAL, not just erotica, and hope people can follow my thought process.

Any time you have a progression of a main character, it gets more and difficult to make the story interesting if simply pointing a finger and pressing a button does the job. This doesn't just apply to "Powers" story, often it involves money or other form of success as society qualifies it. Essentially, the less effort that is put into the event, the less value it has to the story. Build up and foreplay are essential parts of any scene, if you want long term commitment. It's a fine juggling act between effort and reward. Too little effort for too much reward, and you get stuck with "Monty Haul" style scenarios, where the main characters spend their time trying to determine how to arrange the treasure in their fifteenth castle. Don't get me wrong, Daytime soaps have run for twenty years on that shit.

Much of my storytelling style comes from old school roleplaying, so forgive me if I am a bit opinionated. I just find that success can be just as trying as any failure, if the players start getting BORED. When peace reigns in the kingdom, the dark lord is defeated, and the elves are happy dancing again is the time to END the story... after the big orgy scene that you've been dying to write this entire time, and held off for so freaking long, and you're going to make it AWESOME, dammit... You know, as opposed to starting with the huge orgy scene that you arranged through your magic because you ARE the dark lord, and every single gal looks exactly like that girl who turned you down in high school...

Don't write drunk kids...
 
Personally, I find I avoid Mind-Control on this site (as a reader or writer) because the site's basic draw seems to me to be that you control what (if anything) happens next regardless of what any character chooses.

Similarly, I prefer to avoid Incest due to the potential the characters' closeness (physically and scientifically) almost guarantees a revenge-like twist I don't care to see on an enjoyment/pleasure-driven site.
 
Corunner said:
Personally, I find I avoid Mind-Control on this site (as a reader or writer) because the site's basic draw seems to me to be that you control what (if anything) happens next regardless of what any character chooses.
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This is something that I've noticed as well. It's probably a discussion for a different forum topic because I find it to be an interesting thing to discuss because there are lots of opinions on the subject out there. A lot of Chyoa stories have the reader in complete control over everyone's' actions regardless of the situation and scenario. In my opinion, the only time it really makes sense to have that much control over a story is if there's a story reason for it.

In the broadest sense, a First-Person Perspective should focus on what I am doing. A Second Person Perspective should focus on what You are doing. A Third Person Perspective should focus on what Martha and Tom are doing.

The most pervasive perspective that the reader having complete control over the story should be the Third Person perspective. You the reader chooses what Martha, or Tom, or whoever does next or what happens to them or the actions of other characters in the story.

With the First Person perspective, I suppose it makes sense as well. You as the reader is choosing what happens to Me and the chapter should revolve around me reacting to those choices.

However, outside of Mind Control stories...I don't see any reason why the Second Person Perspective should ever have you(the reader) in control of other peoples' actions and personalities within the confines of the story. Second Person stories should revolve around you reacting to the events and situation that you're put in.



In short, I agree. Perhaps I would be more into Mind Control stories if it didn't seem like to a certain extent most stories involve the reader controlling the actions of every character.
 
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