What are your thoughts about the Patreon Page?

dingsdongs

dingsdongs

Really Really Experienced
https://www.patreon.com/CHYOA

First off:
  • I like the idea that Friedman (and everybody else who is paying money for the servers, working, spending time on the administration and improvement of chyoa) can get a bit of compensation.
  • Personally i have never used Patroen so far, and i only once did something similar (supported a project on Kickstarter). Still it looks to me that something like Patreon is a good way to do it.

Still, i'd like to give feedback on how i think about the rewards:

It's not clear to me, if the rewards to your account (Badge / Award | Credits on Thank you Page | Disabled Ads | "Highlight" Label on your stories) are permanent rewards.
  • What happens if you remove your funding? Do the rewards get removed as well.
The reward "No ads anymore" sounds like the most appealing to me.
  • But 6$ monthly sounds like a pretty steep price to pay just for that.
  • And i can't imagine that many people will go for it. Thats 72$ a year for Ad removal.
  • In comparison: Nexusmods advertises a "life-time" Ad-removal for a one time 2$ payment.
  • It would only be useful on my un-rooted smartphone, while on my desktop i can just use an Ad-Blocker and get the "reward" for free...
  • I could imagine a lot more people going for that ad removal, if it was included in the base pledge.
"More Reader" for 12$ monthly: Your story will stand out with the label "Highlight".
  • That sounds like free to play games which are "pay to win". Or pay to get readers in this case ;-)
  • "Your story" sounds like the "Highlight" label could only apply to one story of your choosing?
  • Or does it apply to all your stories? (Have fun with lots of stories of 1-2 chapters which are labeled as "Highlight".
  • Imho should be more neutral, like "Patreon" Label instead of "Highlight".
The 24$ award. Get one chapter written for you.
  • So i pledge 24$ monthly, and get one chapter. And from then on, i get nothing. Not even the "Highlight" label from the 12$ Tier?
  • If i were to chose the 24$ monthly, i would cancel it right away after i have received my chapter. I could then pledge 24$ again, to receive a 2nd chapter (and so on), or change my pledge to a lower tier (for example to get the "Hightlight" label).
  • A "chapter" can be anything, from one word to several thousand words. You should probably define and set some minimum word count to avoid any disappointments and bad blood.

So in conclusion:
  • I would suggest to clarify the rewards.
  • I think that it's important to overcome the initial hurdle and get as many people to pledge as possible. And i rather think that many people would be willing to spend 1 or 2 dollars, if they get something for it. For example, move the "Ad-free" reward to a lower tier, like the 2$ one, or even create a 1$ one. I'd rather have 100 people who pledge 1 dollar, than 10 people who pledge 6.
 
Normally with Patreon you always get the rewards of the lower tiers automatically.

I also see the "Highlight story" reward as something that could lead to problems. To be more precise, to bad blood among us authors, if the site suddenly would get flushed with "highlighted" stories, which are not there on merit, but just on... money. Then again, I do see the need to finance oneself and I guess the rest of the authors could understand.

I also would be happy for a lower price tag on the ad-free site. That's certainly something I am willing to support, but I also most certainly won't do that for a whole year.

And yes, normally, if you stop supporting with Patreon, your rewards get lost as well. That sounds obvious to me. But I don't even see the harm in that.
 
I don't mind the highlighted stories showing up like sponsored ads do in google searches, just one or two stories from sponsors and the rest are either or. You're told upfront it's being highlighted because it was a sponsor who wrote it, so there's no deception going on. Not sure how the logistics will go, but maybe it'd be better to do a highlighted chapter from sponsors in case they don't have many stories or maybe even a 'Sponsor's pick' section if they just like to support the site and don't write that much.

Also, is the higher tier for a written chapter because there aren't many volunteer writers available to write request stories? I'd offer my skills in that and it'd be good to have a stable of writers that can pick up the assignments if there is a large buy in. You could keep the price low, generate more stories or chapters, maybe even let the supporter request a writer if there is a roster list available. Also, it could be possible the supporter would like a thread add on to an existing story. So long as there is the understanding that there is no guarantee that a story would continue beyond that point, it should work out as a decent incentive to donate. Maybe for a higher tier donation you could guarantee a ten thread storyline with 500 word count per thread.
 
I had not looked at the Patreon page yet but If this is where the site is going I am rather dismayed. I already feel that this site is going far too close to infrablack for my taste, and now Friedman is making it "Pay To Win" as well?

I am not a rich man, I cannot afford $12.00 a month, heck, $6.00 a month I am seriously questioning whether or not I can swing it...

Moreover, even if I could afford $12 a month for the promotional content add level, I wouldn't buy it. I feel that authors and their stories should stand on their own merits, not if they happen to be rich.

Moreover, who is Friedman planning to get to write the glut of chapters I am sure people are going to get the $24.00 subscription service for? I mean, even if it's a one time thing, (which for $24.00 a month it had better not be, or you're going to have a lot of pissed off Patreons,) you are going to see a huge glut of people choosing that level at first just to get a bonus chapter...

Also as Dingdongs saud, what's to stop people choosing that level, getting the "free" chapter, then dropping back down to $12.00?

Here are my suggestions for how to improve this idea:

1: Drop Add removal to $5.00 or Less:
$5.00 is the threshold for an impulse purchase for a lot of people, and I for one think I could swing $5.00 but not $6.00. However, as Dingdongs pointed out, just removing the adds is not much of an incentive, so even $5.00 a month is a rather steep price, I think you would probably have people signing up for it in droves if you dropped it all the way to $2.00...

2: Drop Highlighted stories to $10.00:
Now as I have said, I don't like the idea of "Pay to win" on this site at all, but, if your going to have it at all, I suggest making it affordable for more people. Furthermore, $12.00 is a very peculiar amount, which also can cause people to balk, as people might be worried about someone noticing it in thier statement...

3: Increase the cost of getting new chapters to $25.00:
For much the same reasons as the previous item: $24.00 is a very odd amount, and people could balk at that: but also, because while most people who can afford $24.00 can also afford $25.00 just enough couldn't to help keep the "Bought Chapters" at a more manageable level...

In conclusion. I think this Patreon thing was a good idea in theory, but as with so much else, the execution was less than stellar...
 
In addition to everything that has been said so far I have a suggestion: Add an "extra skins" reward - additional skins available only to patrons for as long as they are willing to contribute to that tier. Personally I like the way the site looks, but different people have different prefences, so giving patrons some control over how the site looks for them might be a good idea.
 
@Nemo

If you donate "10$" via Patreon, you always pay more anyway, because Patreon takes a cut, and because of taxes, currency exchange rate, etc.

For my 6$ tier, I end up with 7,14.
 
I don't really mind the Highlight thing. A story is still going to get judged,views, and likes based on the quality of work. It's true that someone might see the Highlight tag and look at the story thinking it's good. However, if it's still a subpar story, then they aren't going to come back and they're certainly not going to give it likes.

With that said, I do think Patreon or Patreon Supporter might be a bit less...Misleading? Calling a story a "Highlight" Implies that it's a quality and noteworthy story.
 
Two things.

1. Highlight: How exactly does this get your story extra exposure. Besides the banner it seems like everything remained the same. Maybe a place on the front page that lists random highlighted stories.

2. Something for people who are only readers: It seems like most of the rewards are geared toward writers. Maybe a something where they could get personalized chapters of their favorite stories. Like have a list of Authors willing to do a chapter and they could pick X author to write Y chapter of Z story.
 
I give the first tier, not for any real reward but to support the website. (not that I mind having an extra award you know, but would have done it either way.)

I agree that because the no adds thing is the thing most people would like it would be better to put it on the first tier. 2$ isn't much and a lot of people would pay it for some reward more real than a simple badge but won't for 6$.

As for the highlight, I think that changing the name could be wise (no idea what to put though) someone unaware of the patreon might claim to come on what he thinks is the best story on the site and arrive on a one chapter garbled story full of typo.

Maybe simply Sponsored would work better.
 
TheDespaxas said:
I give the first tier, not for any real reward but to support the website. (not that I mind having an extra award you know, but would have done it either way.)

I agree that because the no ads thing is the thing most people would like it would be better to put it on the first tier. 2$ isn't much and a lot of people would pay it for some reward more real than a simple badge but won't for 6$.

As for the highlight, I think that changing the name could be wise (no idea what to put though) someone unaware of the patreon might claim to come on what he thinks is the best story on the site and arrive on a one chapter garbled story full of typo.

Maybe simply Sponsored would work better.
Click to expand...

I also agree with all points, 200% agree on the sponsored thing and think that should be changed as soon as possible.
 
I don't understand the backlash against the name highlight for a story. But I do know this. If it is changed to sponsored I will be dropping my contribution down a level. Sponsor has a negative connotation and would be more likely to keep people from reading a story than clicking on it.
 
I agree, to me the words "Sponsor" or "Sponsored" create a negative connection / association. It sounds like you bought your way in, and paid money, so that your story receives this additional tag. Although ironically, that is exactly what has happened ;-)

Still, if you spent your cash to support the site, there should be no negative impact for you, only a positive one. Otherwise one is not inclined to give his support!

"Highlight" on the other hand, has a far too positive impact in my opinion. If somebody doesn't know about the patreon page, and only sees this tag, he probably thinks that it is an extra-ordinary, outstanding, well written (etc., you get my meaning) story, that is so good, that it is featured on the site with the tag "highlight". But that is not what is it! The tag has indeed simply been bought, and has nothing to do at all with the quality of the story!

So i assume that is why me and other posters have suggested to change this tag.

"Patron" or "Patreon" would be my suggestion, as i do not feel that it has any negative association, but neither suggests that the story is of superb quality. But it would still a tag that highlight your story.

Perhaps another / better solution can be found?
And seeing as Friedman has neither commented on this issue yet, nor changed this tag yet, i feel that there is still the possibility to discuss this issue and come up with a favorable solution.

---

On the topic of clarifying the rewards:

It is still not clear to me, if you keep them, after you drop your subscription.
I.e. do you remain Ad-free? Do you keep your "Highlight" tag?

@Friedman: An "official" statement would be nice ;-)
 
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Name it what ever you want as long as it's not sponsored. I honestly don't think highlight is that big of a deal. My story is still getting the same number of views/likes/favorites when I post a new chapter as it did before. Unless their is a dedicated spot on the front page where "Highlighted" stories would appear I don't think any tag other than Sponsored would have either a positive or negative connotation.
 
dingsdongs said:
"Patron" or "Patreon" would be my suggestion, as i do not feel that it has any negative association, but neither suggests that the story is of superb quality. But it would still a tag that highlight your story.

@Friedman: An "official" statement would be nice ;-)
Click to expand...

I like this. Clear and concise with full transparency that leaves no question about how the tag was obtained, but is still eye-catching.
 
I had no idea on what to do and only write sponsored because someone talked about it earlier.

I think having, Backer, Patron, Patreon or any other term could be fine. Highlight in my mind marked a reference to quality and not of the authors financial contribution.

I think and will soon suggest to add something in the style of this highlight tag to current and past stories of the week.

Another idea could be to add a line of stories or a page with only the "Highlighted" stories rather than for them to be in the updated ones (an extra perk for high ranked backers.)


I Wanted to avoid confusion, not to make the site lose money because of it, in the end if nothing changes I'll live with it.
 
How about highlights be called Patron's Pick and instead of highlighting just their story, each month they can pick out a story they want to highlight, so it's not necessarily self serving.
 
dingsdongs said:
On the topic of clarifying the rewards:

It is still not clear to me, if you keep them, after you drop your subscription.
I.e. do you remain Ad-free? Do you keep your "Highlight" tag?

@Friedman: An "official" statement would be nice ;-)
Click to expand...

You keep the Generosity award but not the other rewards.

We can change the wording of "Highlight" after asking the six patrons who are currently pledging. However, "Sponsored" has a negative connotation and won't replace "Highlight".

In addition to that, we will add a new section with highlighted stories on the homepage. That way writers won't have to update their stories to increase their reach and get a little more for their donation.
 
Does anyone have any other suggestions than "Backer", "CHYOA Backer", "Patron", "Patreon"? (These are the terms suggested in the previous posts).
 
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