Dissonant Soundtrack
Really Really Experienced
That really gives the game away then. They can't do a keyword search on video so they enforce on the low-hanging fruit: text. Guess I'll just pay someone to read my story into a camera lol
The future of CHYOA (or at least the funding)
- Thread starter Friedman
- Start date
That really gives the game away then. They can't do a keyword search on video so they enforce on the low-hanging fruit: text. Guess I'll just pay someone to read my story into a camera lol
Thorn_
CHYOA Guru
I believe that a integral part of making Chyoa more attractive as an investment and funding standpoint is difficult since it’s hard for a lot of companies to want to have their names attached to adult sites outside of adult ones already.
Maybe…in rebranding, looking at adjusting a framework to hold user content to more responsible oversight could make it more attractive? The other alternative is the risk of opening it up as where you can get the kind of stuff other places won’t do….which is easier…but likely carries more legal risk.
Not sure which would be better, though the feeling of selective moderation and enforcement between young authors and long mainstays isn’t an uncommon feeling and might contribute to slower user growth, if people don’t feel the system will actually hold offenders more accountable.
Most likely Chyoa does need to expand in size and make more people aware it exists because honestly? The setup is way less tedious and frustrating than literotica or places like it. However, when you’re already in a deficit how to expand is a difficult question outside of partnerships that might result in needing to compromise a few things and risk sabotaging what sets it apart as a better option in the first place.
In a Morton’s fork scenario which is what we have here, all roads and options ultimately are going to be to some degree bad decisions, and it becomes a matter of choosing the one that’s least damaging and promotes long term stability.
But it still seems likely we can expect it to get worse before it gets better.
Maybe…in rebranding, looking at adjusting a framework to hold user content to more responsible oversight could make it more attractive? The other alternative is the risk of opening it up as where you can get the kind of stuff other places won’t do….which is easier…but likely carries more legal risk.
Not sure which would be better, though the feeling of selective moderation and enforcement between young authors and long mainstays isn’t an uncommon feeling and might contribute to slower user growth, if people don’t feel the system will actually hold offenders more accountable.
Most likely Chyoa does need to expand in size and make more people aware it exists because honestly? The setup is way less tedious and frustrating than literotica or places like it. However, when you’re already in a deficit how to expand is a difficult question outside of partnerships that might result in needing to compromise a few things and risk sabotaging what sets it apart as a better option in the first place.
In a Morton’s fork scenario which is what we have here, all roads and options ultimately are going to be to some degree bad decisions, and it becomes a matter of choosing the one that’s least damaging and promotes long term stability.
But it still seems likely we can expect it to get worse before it gets better.
Can that even be achieved with this content? Pornhub, Onlyfans, got into trouble and they are juggernauts compared to us. We can avoid the hammer for longer, being smaller but eventually someone will see us for what we are. A porn site. I like Friedman's idea but at the end of the day it's the same thing however you package it. A different thing. I'm not saying it's a bad thing, but if we are talking about long term stability and growing Chyoa into it's own thing .... i don't know if that's possible like this.
You can cut down parts of Chyoa but you never know when the line will move. And will it even be the same thing?
There will always be a way, after all we are not doing anything illegal here, so growing is natural. I just don't know about the stability part bacause as Arachna said: a lot of companies don't want to have their names attached to adult sites outside of adult ones.
Thorn_
CHYOA Guru
True. Also the fact that most analysis show that paid for internet advertising is generally a waste of money that only convinces companies that already could afford to spend on advertising that it must actually be helping rather than actually affecting the number of traffic at all. Still, while likely a waste for chyoa to do that, other largely websites might be interested in ad space, but it would have to be done in such a way to not be obnoxious.
The only loose long shot think I can think of is attempting to capture the interest of adult gaming sites that might be interested in doing some promoting.
Not to mention, this comes at the heels of an almost imminent financial crisis setting the stage in the next couple years which may hurt user donation support too.
Many friends on other sites though who would be all for the kind of format chyoa brings and are once made aware, simply don't know a place like this exists. Chyoa needs stronger publicity and while it could never compete with basic bitch pornhub shit or onlyfans, it's also bound to face much less legal risk than those, and drastically reduced if a crackdown or more careful attention is paid too stories claiming to be based on real experiences or acts that will be carried out in reality(albeit, 99% of things like these are just said for hype and attention.) Ultimately, I feel some concessions in areas will need to be made with the interest of making chyoa more attractive to be associated with if it can frame itself as being a responsible outlet. But it shouldn't be looked at as a crackdown on "but my free speech" and it would be more accurate to say that it would be aimed at taking content moderation to a more responsible level that it was always intended to be at within it's own guidelines.
In any case I look at, most likely what would have to happen, involves needing at least some form of more control, which likely involves something as simple of bringing in more moderators to help address the long overdue backorder, since it faces an issue similar to pornhub does, of far more content generated than a small team can possibly compensate for. Unlike pornhub or onlyfans, chyoa does not run the risk of intentionally and knowingly hiding actual crimes, and there is no profit in such a format of chyoa towards doing it.
So...yeah, just my two cents. And worth prefacing, I have little to qualify me for actual business analytics(Not that Wall Street knows what it's doing any better apparently), but I am very well trained when it comes to reading psychology and thought processes, often before people even realize it themselves. I won't get into my whole life story about it, but when it comes to predicting what people will do, I'm super good at it.
So, any level of changes in rebranding or restructuring have to be done with a good controlled narrative. The key here being to outline and present it not as a crackdown of what people can or can't do, but a desire for a long overdue and much needed look at bringing content to a responsible level.
Granted, I'm not the best with words, so someone more naturally social is probably a better bet on the best way to say it, but I do think ultimately that's going to be an important component for change, almost no matter what.
Friedman
Administrator
It is up to us to build a functioning infrastructure for adult authors.
The proposed Fiction Community will be the first step in getting funding for the websites. Of course we have to adhere to the Mastercard rules within the community website.
I love this community and want it to keep growing. I hope you're on board.
The proposed Fiction Community will be the first step in getting funding for the websites. Of course we have to adhere to the Mastercard rules within the community website.
I love this community and want it to keep growing. I hope you're on board.
C
Cuchuilain
Guest
Could you get round the OnlyFans model by
a) having an onlyfans page with a generic model - "Friedman's Friend", and anyone who goes there is paying specifically to see that (with nothing on the page there that breaks their rules). It could even just be a picture of Friedman's knees.
b) meanwhile back on CHYOA, people are "encouraged" to visit "Friedman's Friend" OnlyFans page, and receive appropriate badges etc if they can demonstrate that they have done so.
a) having an onlyfans page with a generic model - "Friedman's Friend", and anyone who goes there is paying specifically to see that (with nothing on the page there that breaks their rules). It could even just be a picture of Friedman's knees.
b) meanwhile back on CHYOA, people are "encouraged" to visit "Friedman's Friend" OnlyFans page, and receive appropriate badges etc if they can demonstrate that they have done so.
I think he wants something legit that can grow on its own, in hope that once that business gets bigger, something can trickle down to chyoa, helping it too(as in user base). But that only counts if it brings more value than simply being on chyoa. If it's just for donations it doesn't matter what the 2nd thing is.
C
Cuchuilain
Guest
I guess so, otherwise it might be as well, advertising a swiss or panama bank account that we could transfer cash to. (Just checked - Paypal wont allow this sort of thing either).
You could have a 2 tier membership, with basic only allowing perhaps access to 3 stories within a 24 hour period. Premium allows unrestricted. (I'm not really keen on this idea either due to the limited exposure stories would receive).
Might it be worth inviting authors to pay to have their stories featured in some way? (Twitter's blue tick sort of thing). Again just invite users to transfer cash to the account rather than using mastercard / visa processing?
I think you should be able to use something like CCBILL.com - they process payments for the likes of myfreecams the webcam site and are geared up for adult content.
You could have a 2 tier membership, with basic only allowing perhaps access to 3 stories within a 24 hour period. Premium allows unrestricted. (I'm not really keen on this idea either due to the limited exposure stories would receive).
Might it be worth inviting authors to pay to have their stories featured in some way? (Twitter's blue tick sort of thing). Again just invite users to transfer cash to the account rather than using mastercard / visa processing?
I think you should be able to use something like CCBILL.com - they process payments for the likes of myfreecams the webcam site and are geared up for adult content.
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Durzan
Really Experienced
Hmmm... this is a big leap but... try to find a specific sex toy company or something that might be willing to sponsor you. Bad Dragon bought out F-List.net (a ERP website with fairly loose restrictions and originally a focus on furries) a while back and it gave their website better legal protection and access to funds. Though selling the IP is probs the nuclear option here, considering a similar course of action might reveal a better solution.
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I haven't been writing much lately and (probably not coincidentally) have not been visiting the site very often and checking out the forum even less. But I'm down to continue my support in whatever sustainable way the site owners and community as a whole want to pursue.
MissNix
Experienced
I love the idea of another site, or something that can help authors and help this site still function. Would be up to making content on the new site, and help push anything that need be. Did not realize that the site lost funding until today as Holidays took over my time the past couple of weeks. Let me know if you need any help. I also have some SEO experience if need be for the new site.
Another idea is that we do have some erotic authors that publish on Amazon and such. I know I do. One of the main problems of pushing anything to CHYOA is the content on here is banned a lot by Amazon. If the new site follows Amazon's terms, I'd be happy to make some type of collaboration to advertise the new site. Having a new site that follows terms, can keep both camps happy and can lead to a better flow. Also, would love to help with the Reddit community too if need be.
So no one wanted to flood Visa with calls until they change their mind?
You wimps.
You wimps.
Durzan
Really Experienced
I mean... I suppose we could annoy them quite a bit. Possibly class action lawsuit at the worst. But I'd doubt it'd do much...
Nah, I know. It's just so stupid. I know the mods and Friedman are doing their best to negotiate this, and we all appreciate it. I just don't want content to disappear over hilariously inanely written laws that conflate storytellers with real life criminal elements that the world leadership literally allow to walk the earth unimpeded. It's a fucking farce.
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I prefer to keep my personal life and certainly professional life very separate from CHYOA, so without wanting to doxx myself I would just say I am involved to a certain degree with analysing Cryptocurrencies. I would strongly caution against deep direct involvement with crypto. Short term you'll be contending with user apprehension that will reduce revenue, the instability of the currency (it is an investment not a currency really if you are actually holding it), the hassle of converting to cash and the risk of bad faith actors (including criminality). Long term it is a means of exchange that governments are actively gunning for and isn't nearly as secure or private as members of the public or crypo advocates believe.
Leaving crypto to oneside out of interest if you don't mind me asking, roughly speaking what are the overall operating costs for Chyoa per year?
Also just so I am crystal clear is the bottleneck with receiving payments from supporters rather than making the operating payments for server maintenance etc? (Or is it both the receipt of payment and paying the bills where there are obstructions).
I saw an interview years back where George RR Martin himself found it somewhat ironic that the porn parodies of Game of Thrones couldn't include the Jaime/Cersi story line.
Also that comment from the Payment Processor that the second kink scenario doesn't violate their terms is crazy! The last paragraph literally describes a non-con scenario. Also I have actually seen that video and it is completely a non-con scenario. I write non-con but tbh that video was a bit much for me. It really speaks to the terms of service just enforcing against arbitary words without context.
It's also why coming up with clever loopholes related to the stories themselves won't work. Even if every story had the following standard intro:
"Somewhere in another dimension the film crew was preparing the set. The Director addessed the actors arrayed in various costumes, some wearing heavy prosthetics not even depicting humans. Ok everyone are we all ready to make some art? Everyone happy with the rehersals and signed their consent forms. A resounding cheer went up from all the actors. Everyone was pumped and ready to go!. It was time to make a great erotic film.
The Director looked down at the title of the script [Insert Name of Chyoa Story]. He was proud to be making a great piece of fiction with all human adult actors. "
And then launch into story.
This intro would establish the context that every story was going on as part of filming a consensual movie with actors and special effects. This would meet the rules.
But it wouldn't matter. I suspect that once the company has determined you're not the sort of customer they really want then their not really that interested in following their ToS. Although who knows, maybe it is worth asking them how opening context matters?
There is also flip side which is the payment providers, banks etc don't actually have any values. Those are being driven by third party financiers, political pressure etc. If the financial services companies can bury the fact that the money is coming from erotica and can credibly claim it is from a site that sells pictures of clouds or whatever they will go for that and not look much closer.
Edit: The whole disclaimer and what you can and can't say reminds me of this old sketch
Leaving crypto to oneside out of interest if you don't mind me asking, roughly speaking what are the overall operating costs for Chyoa per year?
Also just so I am crystal clear is the bottleneck with receiving payments from supporters rather than making the operating payments for server maintenance etc? (Or is it both the receipt of payment and paying the bills where there are obstructions).
I saw an interview years back where George RR Martin himself found it somewhat ironic that the porn parodies of Game of Thrones couldn't include the Jaime/Cersi story line.
Also that comment from the Payment Processor that the second kink scenario doesn't violate their terms is crazy! The last paragraph literally describes a non-con scenario. Also I have actually seen that video and it is completely a non-con scenario. I write non-con but tbh that video was a bit much for me. It really speaks to the terms of service just enforcing against arbitary words without context.
It's also why coming up with clever loopholes related to the stories themselves won't work. Even if every story had the following standard intro:
"Somewhere in another dimension the film crew was preparing the set. The Director addessed the actors arrayed in various costumes, some wearing heavy prosthetics not even depicting humans. Ok everyone are we all ready to make some art? Everyone happy with the rehersals and signed their consent forms. A resounding cheer went up from all the actors. Everyone was pumped and ready to go!. It was time to make a great erotic film.
The Director looked down at the title of the script [Insert Name of Chyoa Story]. He was proud to be making a great piece of fiction with all human adult actors. "
And then launch into story.
This intro would establish the context that every story was going on as part of filming a consensual movie with actors and special effects. This would meet the rules.
But it wouldn't matter. I suspect that once the company has determined you're not the sort of customer they really want then their not really that interested in following their ToS. Although who knows, maybe it is worth asking them how opening context matters?
There is also flip side which is the payment providers, banks etc don't actually have any values. Those are being driven by third party financiers, political pressure etc. If the financial services companies can bury the fact that the money is coming from erotica and can credibly claim it is from a site that sells pictures of clouds or whatever they will go for that and not look much closer.
Edit: The whole disclaimer and what you can and can't say reminds me of this old sketch
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Absolutely the crux. It's one of those catch-22 things where when you point out the specifics of their action, they'll come back like "We're a finance company, we're not interested in digging into to the details"
But honestly the idiots ARE because they chose to dig into the details the moment they decided that goofy-ass swirly hypnotism glasses were less acceptable than literally eating shit, which they don't list as a no-no.
I think that most Visa customers would be interested to know that the Visa board condones coprophilia. I have to assume that they do since they don't have it on their "absolutely not" list. Sounding must be okay too! How do we let the press know? >
bobbobbobthethir
Experienced
Another option to consider is to directly handle payment processing through a merchant account. I don't have any experience with the adult business side of things, but from a couple of reviews online (like Forbes and SharkProcessing) it looks like Durango is a more flexible merchant account service provider than most. There are others that specialize in high risk/adult businesses too.
The issues are that (1) it might be more work to make this happen, and (2) ultimately most payment probably will still come through credit card companies, who seem to be the real sticklers. That said, it just depends on how much scrutiny the merchant account gets put under. I think this is an option worth exploring, unless the payment processor Friedman's been in talks with is good to go.
The issues are that (1) it might be more work to make this happen, and (2) ultimately most payment probably will still come through credit card companies, who seem to be the real sticklers. That said, it just depends on how much scrutiny the merchant account gets put under. I think this is an option worth exploring, unless the payment processor Friedman's been in talks with is good to go.