The Virgin Heroine
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2p1k3
Experienced
{Hematoma}
Do you see Goddess of the Burning Rose supporting families? I mean to make mention that by definition Chaste is either refusing extramarital relations OR absolute abstinence. Of course, the story so far is clear that for Her paladins' absolute abstinence only relates to classical behavior that can lead to pregnancy. Extrapreternatural behavior, without penetration, resulting in pregnancy is apparently acceptable.
However, does this goddess support those who refuse to be promiscuous but are sexually active in committed affairs, or marriages? All a marriage is a ritual observing a divine affair between those involved. Thus it is relatively easy to achieve so long as both parties are willing. Whether a 'state' recognizes the marriage is spiritually irrelevant to whether it exists or not.
The best way to get new recruits is to give birth to them. Children rarely choose a different spiritual or religious path, even on paths where parents are encouraged to support free will.
That also leads to the question of where are the men who devote themselves to the Goddess of purification and demon slaying.?. the Burning Rose. Prohibiting male membership may sound erotic and Amazonian, however the Goddess choosing to limit herself to half the population as possible recruits seems off when she is basically perpetually at war with the entire population of the abyss.
If a suggestion for a possible solution, is welcome.
Do you see Goddess of the Burning Rose supporting families? I mean to make mention that by definition Chaste is either refusing extramarital relations OR absolute abstinence. Of course, the story so far is clear that for Her paladins' absolute abstinence only relates to classical behavior that can lead to pregnancy. Extrapreternatural behavior, without penetration, resulting in pregnancy is apparently acceptable.
However, does this goddess support those who refuse to be promiscuous but are sexually active in committed affairs, or marriages? All a marriage is a ritual observing a divine affair between those involved. Thus it is relatively easy to achieve so long as both parties are willing. Whether a 'state' recognizes the marriage is spiritually irrelevant to whether it exists or not.
The best way to get new recruits is to give birth to them. Children rarely choose a different spiritual or religious path, even on paths where parents are encouraged to support free will.
That also leads to the question of where are the men who devote themselves to the Goddess of purification and demon slaying.?. the Burning Rose. Prohibiting male membership may sound erotic and Amazonian, however the Goddess choosing to limit herself to half the population as possible recruits seems off when she is basically perpetually at war with the entire population of the abyss.
If a suggestion for a possible solution, is welcome.
There could be a difference between requirements for a cleric, monk, and paladin.
Maybe the Burning Rose is a relatively new/young goddess and choosing to manifest herself as a female... and/or having a female avatar?
That has lead to women comprising most of the Order. Gender segregation only being observed in temples used for acolyte/apprentice recruiting/training.
Thus a follower who has their virginity violated is still supported by the Goddess. However they have to attune themselves to Her in a different way than paladins.
Sabine is supposed to be a new recruit yes? So it stands to reason she may be ignorant of the entire scope of the order, particularly anything outside being a paladin.
Maybe the Burning Rose is a relatively new/young goddess and choosing to manifest herself as a female... and/or having a female avatar?
That has lead to women comprising most of the Order. Gender segregation only being observed in temples used for acolyte/apprentice recruiting/training.
Thus a follower who has their virginity violated is still supported by the Goddess. However they have to attune themselves to Her in a different way than paladins.
Sabine is supposed to be a new recruit yes? So it stands to reason she may be ignorant of the entire scope of the order, particularly anything outside being a paladin.
I was under the assumption (and that's just me) that in this world Hematoma created there is one goddess who represents women in their maiden state, and a different one who represents them in their maternal state.
For example, when a womans virginity has been taken, it is usually through intercourse with a male (or we can guess the gods of this world assume the loss of virginity as the result of such a relationship) mening the woman in question risks pregnancy and thus ends her time as a maiden and is set on the path of being a mother (consensual or not).
This would meen that a goddess other then the Burning Rose (a more powerful one?) takes claim on this woman and the Burning Rose is no longer permitted to support her.
For example, when a womans virginity has been taken, it is usually through intercourse with a male (or we can guess the gods of this world assume the loss of virginity as the result of such a relationship) mening the woman in question risks pregnancy and thus ends her time as a maiden and is set on the path of being a mother (consensual or not).
This would meen that a goddess other then the Burning Rose (a more powerful one?) takes claim on this woman and the Burning Rose is no longer permitted to support her.
alyena
Virgin
(emphasis mine)
People are over-thinking it too much. The Burning Rose is a minor goddess precisely because of the restrictions on her faithful. I would imagine a wedding condoned by the Burning Rose to be akin to a father giving away the bride - a happy, if bitter-sweet, celebration.
2p1k3
Experienced
I quote a passage in 2.1 of the story only to illustrate the question is valid. My attention is on the condition of Ivona's maidenhead being claimed in an act of lust.
Therefore one could say the 'maidenhead' of the knights and masters have 'already' been claimed 'in an act of faith and devotion to the Burning Rose. Therefore their maidenhead could literally never be taken by an act of lust after that.
I write this extrapolation as literal because it is what seems to be important, as the existential idea of chastity apparently fails to be a concern of the Burning Rose. Thus, the request on clarification on which definition of Chastity Hematoma wants.
i.e. {11.3} the threads that have Sabine and/or Glenda impregnated by the traitorous {to the demons} Xallia; However, it is done without actual literal penetration of a cock. Just her super-sperm penetrates the membrane with their blue duralexx suits and red capes.
In various other pantheons from history the domains of gods and domains often overlap; They have unique identities and that seem to guide their fellowship instead of the domains themselves.
Of course, it is up to what Hematoma wants, but hence the question. As a reader, to me it seemed writers were developing this 'line' further and I assume that she would have denied or rewrote the threads if she wanted something else. However, the line is a little confusing.
Thank you for quoting that earlier reply. However, the threads Hematoma has approved/rewrote still contradicts what you quoted. Such as the example I already gave of Sabine and Glenda being impregnated by Xallia. Though it would probably take more 'tries', any sister could do this with a mortal male too.
Another example though is {7.2} the one where Sabine tries to sacrifice herself to save her Master, an Imp, but ends up changing everything. The thread has yet to continue, however it suggests the Burning Rose is far from done with Sabine and is creating something new in that materia.
Or {28.1} written by Hematoma, that also explicitly suggests the option that as a descendant of the Avatar, Ivona is 'meant' to have a family. Combined with the other examples it would still be consistent, to me; For Sabine to either retain her powers as a Paladin or be granted a new set of powers and role within the Order.
I mean, by the Burning Rose's guidance Ivona would be 'mother' to the original Saint Magdalena's latest descendants, how is that not holy? It's the same as if Mary Magdalene 'was' pregnant and there really is a 'bloodline' that Jesus created with her.
The sheer gravity of the situation would deepen the connection between the Burning Rose and Sabine/Ivona.
Hence the question of if Hematoma actually intended to indirectly suggest the other ways to 'claim' a maidenhead are permitted by the Burning Rose. Furthermore, being a very martially oriented Order, I doubt any except the youngest recruits still have their actual maidenhead and that is just from rigorous training.
Therefore one could say the 'maidenhead' of the knights and masters have 'already' been claimed 'in an act of faith and devotion to the Burning Rose. Therefore their maidenhead could literally never be taken by an act of lust after that.
I write this extrapolation as literal because it is what seems to be important, as the existential idea of chastity apparently fails to be a concern of the Burning Rose. Thus, the request on clarification on which definition of Chastity Hematoma wants.
i.e. {11.3} the threads that have Sabine and/or Glenda impregnated by the traitorous {to the demons} Xallia; However, it is done without actual literal penetration of a cock. Just her super-sperm penetrates the membrane with their blue duralexx suits and red capes.
In various other pantheons from history the domains of gods and domains often overlap; They have unique identities and that seem to guide their fellowship instead of the domains themselves.
Of course, it is up to what Hematoma wants, but hence the question. As a reader, to me it seemed writers were developing this 'line' further and I assume that she would have denied or rewrote the threads if she wanted something else. However, the line is a little confusing.
Thank you for quoting that earlier reply. However, the threads Hematoma has approved/rewrote still contradicts what you quoted. Such as the example I already gave of Sabine and Glenda being impregnated by Xallia. Though it would probably take more 'tries', any sister could do this with a mortal male too.
Another example though is {7.2} the one where Sabine tries to sacrifice herself to save her Master, an Imp, but ends up changing everything. The thread has yet to continue, however it suggests the Burning Rose is far from done with Sabine and is creating something new in that materia.
Or {28.1} written by Hematoma, that also explicitly suggests the option that as a descendant of the Avatar, Ivona is 'meant' to have a family. Combined with the other examples it would still be consistent, to me; For Sabine to either retain her powers as a Paladin or be granted a new set of powers and role within the Order.
I mean, by the Burning Rose's guidance Ivona would be 'mother' to the original Saint Magdalena's latest descendants, how is that not holy? It's the same as if Mary Magdalene 'was' pregnant and there really is a 'bloodline' that Jesus created with her.
The sheer gravity of the situation would deepen the connection between the Burning Rose and Sabine/Ivona.
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alyena
Virgin
So, the problem with the examples you used are that they weren't written by Hematoma. She has stated, repeatedly, that she'll approve just about anything, so long as its written well and doesn't directly contradict something she's still planning to write. Whether such additions can be said to be 'canon' or not is debatable - paraphrasing Hematoma here: the great thing about the Chyoo format is that there's endless room for derivatives. That isn't a thumbs-up or -down, but more like a statement of intent, which I take to mean that you can do whatever you want within your branch of the story, so long as it's internally consistent.
With that in mind, there are plenty of options for how the gods work. If, in one story arc, the author wants the Burning Rose to only be concerned with physical virginity, then it would make sense that one of the sisters' daily prayers reinforces the hymen to prevent it from tearing due to the rigors of daily training. Maybe the Burning Rose is a hypocrite in such a story arc, completely unconcerned with anything but a thin piece of flesh, and even sex condoned through the legitimate union of matrimony is still a taboo. Or maybe it's not hypocritical and the hymen carries some important, as-of-yet unforeseen power in this world.
In another story arc, maybe the Burning Rose couldn't care less about physical virginity but scrutinizes a person's mental and emotional state. In such a case, perhaps a sister that is raped by a daemon but later seeks atonement can recover her connection to the goddess, whereas a paladin who simply indulges in indecent thoughts for too long finds herself cut off forever.
This is what I meant about you overthinking the situation: you can write whatever you want, and you're not wrong within the bounds of your own thread. But, if you want to keep consistency with the original author's work, it's a pretty simple affair - vaginal penetration breaks the contract with the Burning Rose (she isn't too happy about other forms of fornication, but we've yet to see confirmation that she'll cut you off for it).
With that in mind, there are plenty of options for how the gods work. If, in one story arc, the author wants the Burning Rose to only be concerned with physical virginity, then it would make sense that one of the sisters' daily prayers reinforces the hymen to prevent it from tearing due to the rigors of daily training. Maybe the Burning Rose is a hypocrite in such a story arc, completely unconcerned with anything but a thin piece of flesh, and even sex condoned through the legitimate union of matrimony is still a taboo. Or maybe it's not hypocritical and the hymen carries some important, as-of-yet unforeseen power in this world.
In another story arc, maybe the Burning Rose couldn't care less about physical virginity but scrutinizes a person's mental and emotional state. In such a case, perhaps a sister that is raped by a daemon but later seeks atonement can recover her connection to the goddess, whereas a paladin who simply indulges in indecent thoughts for too long finds herself cut off forever.
This is what I meant about you overthinking the situation: you can write whatever you want, and you're not wrong within the bounds of your own thread. But, if you want to keep consistency with the original author's work, it's a pretty simple affair - vaginal penetration breaks the contract with the Burning Rose (she isn't too happy about other forms of fornication, but we've yet to see confirmation that she'll cut you off for it).
2p1k3
Experienced
Seemingly, you missed reading the first and last example. Both are written by Hematoma.
I understand your point that I can write whatever I want; And I recently have done just that with couple submissions. However. that is exactly the purpose of my questions.
I still wish to maintain some semblance of what Hematoma wants in her story; But of course, that is my personal choice. I see very little point in submitting posts that go against what an author wants for a story, whether they approve it or not.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't; But this way everyone is happy.
Perhaps I misunderstand; However, I am under the impression that Hematoma has added a few words to a few threads that others have written in order for them to fit more with what she wants? Which I love because then what was submitted is still useful, instead of being erased and made in vain.
Maybe they are just grammatical errors. I know I sometimes make those. lulz
I understand your point that I can write whatever I want; And I recently have done just that with couple submissions. However. that is exactly the purpose of my questions.
I still wish to maintain some semblance of what Hematoma wants in her story; But of course, that is my personal choice. I see very little point in submitting posts that go against what an author wants for a story, whether they approve it or not.
Sometimes they do, sometimes they don't; But this way everyone is happy.
Perhaps I misunderstand; However, I am under the impression that Hematoma has added a few words to a few threads that others have written in order for them to fit more with what she wants? Which I love because then what was submitted is still useful, instead of being erased and made in vain.
Maybe they are just grammatical errors. I know I sometimes make those. lulz
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alyena
Virgin
I'm confused about this. Hematoma has seldom written about Xallia; she was introduced by Reaper, and the threads in which Sabine & friends were impregnated sans vaginal penetration were written by Throbbin.
Your final example was written by Hematoma, but doesn't stand as precedent since Magdalena's and Hecata's affair was the formative event that prompted the Burning Rose to be so strict about virginity in the first place - the couple was NOT sanctioned, and the child of their union, Ivona, was sealed away for some untold stretch of time as a result.
You can interpret that however you like, but I think it's pretty clear that the virgin goddess was not happy about what transpired and went out of her way to prevent it from happening again.
2p1k3
Experienced
I agree that Burning Rose was apparently unhappy. However, I interpret Her as possessing and displaying more intelligence and wisdom. If not for general compassion and empathy, then simply a greater number of followers so that they can go out and kill more demons.
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I mean, what 'I' a mere mortal would think far more practical is a law against intercourse outside of marriage. {evidently} AND only marriages that are sanctioned/sealed by the Burning Rose.
Units of power may change but the general rules of power and fluid dynamics are the same. Being general and vague requires increasing amounts of power. Setting conditions on a law lessons the power requirements.
Moreover, if Burning Rose is a minor goddess/demigoddess? I believe that it is more reasonable for Her to in act the law such as I suggested because it is conditional.
If Burning Rose is a full goddess? Then she has more than enough power to 'waste' on being vengeful and spiteful for over two decades.
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Finally, Burning Rose seems to be a silent goddess for most threads I have read, and prefers to communicate through animated illusions/day(dreams). I admit, for me there is always more to read.
Therefore, it is very easy to see why one abbey may have interpreted the law as a general law against all sex.
Whereas another War Mother may have had the audacity to ask the Burning Rose for clarification on what was 'prohibited' and what was allowed.
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- First and foremost there are two glaring simple conditions that simply must both be met before any similar event could occur.
- An unsanctioned mating.
- Sex occurring specifically between a demon and member of Burning Rose's fellowship.
- Time changes everything, especially if there is something in a 'future' plan that this goddess wants. Abandoning a few thousand amazonian warriors simply because of an event that occurred a couple decades ago as an excuse, is disconcerting to me.
- Given Ivona has grown up from a fetus, a similar amount if not more growth would be conceivable in a goddess, especially a demigoddess, or minor goddess, or whatever.
I mean, what 'I' a mere mortal would think far more practical is a law against intercourse outside of marriage. {evidently} AND only marriages that are sanctioned/sealed by the Burning Rose.
Units of power may change but the general rules of power and fluid dynamics are the same. Being general and vague requires increasing amounts of power. Setting conditions on a law lessons the power requirements.
Moreover, if Burning Rose is a minor goddess/demigoddess? I believe that it is more reasonable for Her to in act the law such as I suggested because it is conditional.
If Burning Rose is a full goddess? Then she has more than enough power to 'waste' on being vengeful and spiteful for over two decades.
---
Finally, Burning Rose seems to be a silent goddess for most threads I have read, and prefers to communicate through animated illusions/day(dreams). I admit, for me there is always more to read.
Therefore, it is very easy to see why one abbey may have interpreted the law as a general law against all sex.
Whereas another War Mother may have had the audacity to ask the Burning Rose for clarification on what was 'prohibited' and what was allowed.
- Say a loved one found this man they are heads over heals in love with, but he respects the intended too much to ask her to abandon her the Her. Sure violating the will of your goddess is bad for Magdalene.
- How does the karma of continually violating the will of all the mortals in your fellowship, even come close to balancing against one mortal committing a cardinal sin?
- How does it actually affect the mortals? The corruption of White Rock abbey is an excellent example of how it affects them in many threads. That is to say it fails to really help the Burning Rose much.
- The women are coerced {mind controlled} into giving up their chastity to demons. That in itself fails to actually be the same as them 'choosing'.
- If pregnancy from demons is still the worry?
- use a spell to "Purify" the fetus while it is in the womb of a 'rescued' sister. Purification is one of Burning Roses domains yes?
- that is all kinds of more godly as such a spell preserves the fetus's future while stripping the demonic 'taint'.
- If pregnancy from demons is still the worry?
- Then the 'sisters' have their connection severed and 'know' from their studies, that it is 'permanent'.
- That also pretty much severs any hope they could use to hold onto while they 'prayed' silently for rescue.
- The women are coerced {mind controlled} into giving up their chastity to demons. That in itself fails to actually be the same as them 'choosing'.
- Such as it is, that is the reasoning for my reasoning for 'interpreting' that there is a different answer than the obvious one suggested by what has been written. That is to say, an answer that fits existing threads and still allows for a brighter future.
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