Am I understanding the POV incorrectly?

[Dansak]

I'll admit that my spelling and grammar are terrible and my vocabulary is not much better. English maybe my mother tongue but if it wasn't for spell checkers i'd not be able to write.

On CHYOA i have a tendency to write in the first person, sometimes in the third and with my Vanilla stuff it's nearly always third person.

I've noticed on here that a lot of stories are written in the second person, which makes sense as it's an adventure story set up with choices, so it's all 'you do this' and 'you got that' as the author is putting the reader in the story/game.

My confusion though is that most authors who write in the second person have categorized themselves as third person.

Am i being really dumb and misunderstanding the whole 1st/2nd/3rd POV? Or are a lot of people putting 3rd when then mean 2nd?

I've got a feeling this is me missing something obvious.

 

[Thorn_]

Not really. A lot of people actually just tend to categorize them wrong. They are tagged by authors, not the site itself.

Same way that having a female character in the male main character story, does not really mean you have a female main character either, even if it’s labelled as such.

But there’s also the situations where in projects with co-writers, they’ll decide to use different perspectives and most authors aren’t usually going to tell someone that their contribution isn’t good enough, so most things will get approved unless blatantly against what the main writer says and that’s assuming they have it moderated at all, that things need approval to be entered.

It’s not even a bad thing to allow unmoderated contributions. A lot of new writers tend to feel insecure that their thing might not be good enough, so allowing more free access makes them stress less.

 

[Zekar]

My earlier stuff and fan fiction is 3rd person.

But I’ve pushed more to 2nd person because I like it for Choose Your Own formats.

 

[Dansak]

I agree, 2nd works best for choose your own format, I just don’t know why people then categorise it as 3rd!

 

[daciasdesire]

Without meaning to be rude, just knowing about the 3 different POV might be beyond the knowledge of some story creators. They could end up just picking randomly at story creation just to get on with the process.

 

[Dansak]

To be fair I’m not bothered which POV people use, or even if it is wrongly categorised, as you say some may not fully grasp the concept.

I was just curious if I had it wrong as there were so many examples of 2nd POV categorised as 3rd, I just thought I was missing something.

 

[insertnamehere]

It may be because third person is the most common POV, so in many cases it could be the only one the author has actually heard of.
But it's not a huge deal. gotta remember, most authors are here because they like porn, not because they like writing.

 

[wilparu]

Interesting, and some good points raised. I think mostly it's just people either being unfamiliar with POV when they start their story or missing the categorization when they first hit publish.

Now, if someone could explain to me how tense works in 3rd person writing I'd appreciate it! For some reason, tense is the hardest thing for me when I write, and when I write in the 3rd person I will write paragraphs that sound completely wrong because I can't tell if it's supposed to be present or past tense. Especially when characters are speaking. So then I go and change the tense in one sentence, re-read it, and it somehow seems more wrong.

I completely agree that 2nd person works great with the choose your own adventure format, but I can't use it for some reason. I'm most comfortable in 1st person, slightly comfortable in 3rd, and completely incapable of writing in the 2nd. Granted my mind doesn't work right for telling a story where the reader is the avatar, I have to imagine the protagonist as a separate character.

 

[Dansak]

I agree re 2nd, I can’t write it at all. One of the reasons I started writing on chyoa was to try to get out of my comfort zone. I’d only ever written in 3rd, hence why my first story the PA was in 3rd. I pushed myself into 1st POV for my second story (male pov) and again in my third story (female POV). I have to say now I’m used to it 1st my preferred POV. However third is easier for more complex plots as you can give an omnipotent view. But that just means you improve your writing skills when using 1st as you have to think of creative ways of getting other characters thoughts/motives across. Writing in 1st is very good for erotica as you get inside the characters head more and feel what they feel. I’m really enjoying writing a female 1st POV, that’s great fun.

 

[insertnamehere]

Now, if someone could explain to me how tense works in 3rd person writing I'd appreciate it! For some reason, tense is the hardest thing for me when I write, and when I write in the 3rd person I will write paragraphs that sound completely wrong because I can't tell if it's supposed to be present or past tense. Especially when characters are speaking. So then I go and change the tense in one sentence, re-read it, and it somehow seems more wrong.

You can decide what tense you're using, i.e. present or past, for yourself. Your writing should only sound 'wrong' if your tense changes without warning. Except for in-dialogue tense - that depends on what tense the character is using.
For example:
"That man is running," she said.
This sentence is in past tense, but the character is speaking in present tense.
If you could post a snippet of your writing, it'd be easier to determine what your issue is.

 

[gene.sis]

No matter what person your story uses globally, you mostly have to use the other two persons as well.
In dialogs, the character talks about themselves "I" (1st person,) direct their questions/statements at other persons "you" (2nd person,) or talk about other persons/things "he/she/it" (3rd person.)

Dialogs often use the present tense, so it might be useful to start writing using the present tense. (Though in some dialogs, you might have to refer to the past, so you obviously have to use the past tense.) The present tense is also said to be the rather modern style while writing stories in the past tense is rather classic (I think most novels are written in past tense.)

 

[wilparu]

You can decide what tense you're using, i.e. present or past, for yourself. Your writing should only sound 'wrong' if your tense changes without warning. Except for in-dialogue tense - that depends on what tense the character is using.
For example:
"That man is running," she said.
This sentence is in past tense, but the character is speaking in present tense.
If you could post a snippet of your writing, it'd be easier to determine what your issue is.

Thanks, I'll post a bit of my writing to show how I struggle. And thankyou gene.sis as well, that helps to keep in mind.

Uh, warning though, this bit implies some incest and involves a magical curse mind controlling a family at Halloween. But it's the best example I could find, I only have the one story branch that's 3rd person.

"Aye. I know you think I'm your older sister Mister Patrick, but if I am all I know is I still love you madly." Lauren removed one of her hands from Patrick's and rested it on his thigh, lightly. It felt like she was resting a burning coal through his jeans to the young man. "When you were with my lady upstairs I was... very upset. Not just that she was taking the man I love to her bed, but that it was your first time. Had I known, I would have crawled into your bed ages ago late at night."

"I, uh I don't know what to say to that," Patrick mumbled. Lauren's hand was slowly moving up and down his thigh, and while a few tears had streaked her makeup she was now smiling at him, an inviting half smile that promised much.

"Very well, don't say anything." Lauren stood and simply pulled on Patrick's hand until he stood too. "It is now ten after 11 by that clock. But if the curse damns us or the world ends at midnight I won't just sit here regretting 'till the trumpets blow. My lady, Doctor Freud, we will be back in half an hour."

Standing very close to Patrick, she leaned up slightly, her lips almost touching his. "Now... Patrick. I dahn't know what tomorrow brings, but before whatever happens happens I want you. Can you take this lass to your bed?"

So I guess what I always find weird is how 3rd person past tense seems so normal, until the characters start talking and then, in the moment, doing something. I bolded a few things in my example, like how Patrick mumbled a reply but this his sister is smiling at him, instead of smiled. Does that explanation make sense? When I read it it seems ok, but while I am actually writing it some times I'll come to a screeching halt on the keyboard because it feels like I'm making a mistake mid-sentence.

And the last line, initially I wrote "Standing very close to Patrick, she leans up" because that made sense,but when I re-read it I felt I had to change it. But isn't that tense changing in the same action? It might just be a weird quirk of my thinking as I write, because I rarely have that problem when writing first person (which is most of my stuff).

 

[Dansak]

I see what you mean, and it’s easily done. Separating the dialogue from the narrative...

The dialogue will always depend on the content, ie are the characters discussing the past present or future. A tip for dialogue is to read it out loud, I’ve often changed dialogue after hearing it aloud.
But the narrative is more tricky. On the whole it depends if the narrator is telling it in the past or present tense...for example...
“Lauren's hand was slowly moving upand down his thigh...”

seems like past tense where as you could easily slip into...
“As Lauren's hand slowly moved up and down his thigh a few tears were.”

which implies a more present tense. It’s very subtle and not the best example.
As you know Wilparu the trick is to pick a tense and stick with it, but that consistency is difficult, especially when the characters dialogue keeps switching tense.

 

[gene.sis]

The structure "verb +ing" is not just used in the present continuous but in more cases.
In the present continuous, you have "am/are/is verb +ing"
In the past continuous, you have "was/were verb +ing"

(Though I'm not a native speaker and don't grasp the whole concept of English tenses yet. In case of tenses, I mostly write what feels right for me.)

 

[insertnamehere]

-snip-
So I guess what I always find weird is how 3rd person past tense seems so normal, until the characters start talking and then, in the moment, doing something. I bolded a few things in my example, like how Patrick mumbled a reply but this his sister is smiling at him, instead of smiled. Does that explanation make sense? When I read it it seems ok, but while I am actually writing it some times I'll come to a screeching halt on the keyboard because it feels like I'm making a mistake mid-sentence.

And the last line, initially I wrote "Standing very close to Patrick, she leans up" because that made sense,but when I re-read it I felt I had to change it. But isn't that tense changing in the same action? It might just be a weird quirk of my thinking as I write, because I rarely have that problem when writing first person (which is most of my stuff).

The writing you have posted is totally correct.
In the case of that sentence you re-wrote, the tense isn't quite changing. The original sentence was present tense and the sentence you currently have is past tense, which is the more accurate one. The section, "Standing very close to Patrick..." is a dependent clause, whereas the phrase, "...she leaned up..." is an independent clause. The former is something you add to the latter. The way you've written it essentially means, "She leaned up as she was standing very close to Patrick." The 'was' turns the 'standing' into past tense. Here, you don't need to write 'was', because it's implied by the way you've structured the sentence.
Basically, because the part before the comma is just an addition to the part after the comma, the tense of the sentence is determined by the right-of-comma verb. The left-of-comma verb is always written in present tense.
English is weird.

 

[wilparu]

The writing you have posted is totally correct.
In the case of that sentence you re-wrote, the tense isn't quite changing. The original sentence was present tense and the sentence you currently have is past tense, which is the more accurate one. The section, "Standing very close to Patrick..." is a dependent clause, whereas the phrase, "...she leaned up..." is an independent clause. The former is something you add to the latter. The way you've written it essentially means, "She leaned up as she was standing very close to Patrick." The 'was' turns the 'standing' into past tense. Here, you don't need to write 'was', because it's implied by the way you've structured the sentence.
Basically, because the part before the comma is just an addition to the part after the comma, the tense of the sentence is determined by the right-of-comma verb. The left-of-comma verb is always written in present tense.
English is weird.

That really helped, thanks!
I’ll keep clause dependency in mind when I’m writing my next 3rd person story and hopefully not somehow confuse myself as I’m typing lol

 

[Dansak]

The writing you have posted is totally correct.
In the case of that sentence you re-wrote, the tense isn't quite changing. The original sentence was present tense and the sentence you currently have is past tense, which is the more accurate one. The section, "Standing very close to Patrick..." is a dependent clause, whereas the phrase, "...she leaned up..." is an independent clause. The former is something you add to the latter. The way you've written it essentially means, "She leaned up as she was standing very close to Patrick." The 'was' turns the 'standing' into past tense. Here, you don't need to write 'was', because it's implied by the way you've structured the sentence.
Basically, because the part before the comma is just an addition to the part after the comma, the tense of the sentence is determined by the right-of-comma verb. The left-of-comma verb is always written in present tense.
English is weird.

God I wish I understood that! Despite it being my mother tongue my English is terrible. My spelling, vocabulary and grammar are very poor and my understanding of the finer points such as you have explained is so lacking it’s a joke. I stress endlessly over sentence structure and paragraph/page layout. Were it not for spell check and Grammarly I would not be able to write.