How do you prefer your Elves? As slaves or masters?

[Arthor Thomarius]

Which scenario do you prefer for your elves?

1. Elves are one of many slave races who have been bound to the service of mankind. They are forced to turn their superior bodies and magical prowess to the profit and pleasure of humanity alongside other monstergirls and demi-humans.

2. Elves are a slave race, but due to the fact that they live much longer than their owners, the elven house slaves tend towards being the power behind the throne.

3. Elves are the dominant race who rule over all other creatures with an iron fist wrapped in a silk glove. They treat humans like any other plaything.

4. Elves and humans live in a symbiotic relationship where the elves treat humans as favored allies/subjects and humans see elves as being naturally superior beings whose council should be obeyed.

5. Elves are the victims of goblin or orc cruelty. Beautiful immortals degraded and humiliated by foul and disgusting monsters.

 

[GyroscopicGraphite]

These are just my thoughts on each option, assuming the usual big-titty and magically inclined elf archetype;

1. Is pretty unrealistic, as a notably strong race like that would probably not tolerate such treatment, though that does open up the possibility that they like it...

2. Actually a really interesting idea, definitly the most realistic and nuanceable one. As an author, I like this one.

3. With how nature-loving elves tend to be, I think they'd be somewhat anti-slavery, though I could see an ego issue or superiority complex (domination kink?) causing some to enjoy playimg with toys, if you know what I mean.

4. Definitly my personal preference, but that's because I'm not the kind of person to make people suffer just because. Also may lead to more romantic possibilities.

5. Slightly overdone, I think, though it has unlimited potential in both 'secretly likes it' and 'control' categories.

 

[Arthor Thomarius]

These are just my thoughts on each option, assuming the usual big-titty and magically inclined elf archetype;

1. Is pretty unrealistic, as a notably strong race like that would probably not tolerate such treatment, though that does open up the possibility that they like it...

2. Actually a really interesting idea, definitly the most realistic and nuanceable one. As an author, I like this one.

3. With how nature-loving elves tend to be, I think they'd be somewhat anti-slavery, though I could see an ego issue or superiority complex (domination kink?) causing some to enjoy playimg with toys, if you know what I mean.

4. Definitly my personal preference, but that's because I'm not the kind of person to make people suffer just because. Also may lead to more romantic possibilities.

5. Slightly overdone, I think, though it has unlimited potential in both 'secretly likes it' and 'control' categories.

I would assume that in scenario 1 and 2, humans have some kind of slave magic to bind non-humans to their will.

In scenario 3, the elves have such magic. In scenario 4, the elves share the slave magic with humans.

 

[TheLowKing]

Can I pick all of the above? I want to pick all of the above.

The most important thing is to avoid making them carbon copies of Tolkien's or D&D's Elves. Once you've done that, you're golden, imo. Do somehing new with them!

 

[Gambio]

My totally not elves™ are at war with pretty much everyone else and while they do view themselves as superior(and quite frankly are), they aren't nummerical enough to actually go on the offensive, so it's pretty much a stalemate.

Which means I am having the best of both worlds! Human and Elves slaves!

 

[Arthor Thomarius]

My totally not elves™ are at war with pretty much everyone else and while they do view themselves as superior(and quite frankly are), they aren't nummerical enough to actually go on the offensive, so it's pretty much a stalemate.

Which means I am having the best of both worlds! Human and Elves slaves!

Thinking out loud here.
But if I were a kingdom of elves dealing with humans, and assuming...
1. Elves live five to twenty five times longer than humans do.
2. Humans find elves to be beautiful and desirable as mates.
3. Elves have skills and talents honed over their long lifespans that make them useful to human allies.
4. Elves have better magic than humans and can produce magical artifacts that they are willing to pay a lot of money to acquire.
5. Elves and humans can produce some form of hybrid offspring.

Then here is how an elven monarch might deal with rowdy humans on his borders.

He, she, or zhe, would flood the market with elven goods as they have the sales-elves seduce the most powerful human families and offer to marry into their bloodlines.
Eventually their half-breed offspring will be the ones in charge of the institutions of power on which human societies are built.
Imagine it, your father dies and you inherit his kingdom but you soon realize that the whole court has been trained over the course of a century to obey the grand vizier, a title your great great grandfather, a wise and sexy elf merchant, has held longer than any of the humans at court have been alive.
Over time, laws would be passed which grant special privileges to the elves and their children and before long humans would just assume that elves are supposed to be in charge.

 

[Impregmaniac]

The most important thing is to avoid making them carbon copies of Tolkien's or D&D's Elves

Where are you on Warhammer Elves?

The High Elves are infuriatingly competent due to their long lives that they basically wrote the book on Justified Narcissism. So there's your superiority complex. (scenario 2-ish)

Dark Elves are their emo edgy cousin who forgot what safe-words are and revel in slavery and torture of literally every-being, including themselves. Here is your domination route. (scenario 3)

Wood Elves don't actually care that much for trees, but more "get off my property" at arrow point. This one, I can see Elf/Human relations being friendly, or at least neutral, enough to have consensually made half-breeds. (scenario 4-ish)

 

[Impregmaniac]

Over time, laws would be passed which grant special privileges to the elves and their children and before long humans would just assume that elves are supposed to be in charge.

Leans heavily into scenarios 2 through 4, with 3 being the most direct.

2 I can see the MC being advised, by the trusted elf advisor, who served his father before him, and his father before him, and his father before him, for what would be the best way to maintain the family enterprise/lineage, with their own very long-term power/politics play among other elf advisors. Imagine 2 families having a generations-long rivalry because elf advisor A didn't apologize to elf advisor B for accidentally stepping on their toe.

As I said above, 4 seems to be the most neutral scenario. The humans may not see elves as superior, but would ask for their council because you don't live that long without learning a thing or two. The elves could take the Mentor perspective, teaching all the new humans about the things that their forefathers had already forgot.

 

[Gambio]

Thinking out loud here.
But if I were a kingdom of elves dealing with humans, and assuming...
1. Elves live five to twenty five times longer than humans do.
2. Humans find elves to be beautiful and desirable as mates.
3. Elves have skills and talents honed over their long lifespans that make them useful to human allies.
4. Elves have better magic than humans and can produce magical artifacts that they are willing to pay a lot of money to acquire.
5. Elves and humans can produce some form of hybrid offspring.

Then here is how an elven monarch might deal with rowdy humans on his borders.

He, she, or zhe, would flood the market with elven goods as they have the sales-elves seduce the most powerful human families and offer to marry into their bloodlines.
Eventually their half-breed offspring will be the ones in charge of the institutions of power on which human societies are built.
Imagine it, your father dies and you inherit his kingdom but you soon realize that the whole court has been trained over the course of a century to obey the grand vizier, a title your great great grandfather, a wise and sexy elf merchant, has held longer than any of the humans at court have been alive.
Over time, laws would be passed which grant special privileges to the elves and their children and before long humans would just assume that elves are supposed to be in charge.

That's actually not too far off from what happened in the lore. It's just that my story takes place after totally not elves™ established such an empire and it collapsed.

 

[Leonine_Knight]

I am a shameless elf-lover, so I tend to prefer depictions of them as inherently superior beings, anywhere on the continuum from vaguely sinister diminutive fey creatures to "humans but with pointy ears and immortal lives spent making themselves ten times stronger and smarter than you can ever hope to be."

 

[raziel83]

Where are you on Warhammer Elves?

The High Elves are infuriatingly competent due to their long lives that they basically wrote the book on Justified Narcissism. So there's your superiority complex. (scenario 2-ish)

Dark Elves are their emo edgy cousin who forgot what safe-words are and revel in slavery and torture of literally every-being, including themselves. Here is your domination route. (scenario 3)

Wood Elves don't actually care that much for trees, but more "get off my property" at arrow point. This one, I can see Elf/Human relations being friendly, or at least neutral, enough to have consensually made half-breeds. (scenario 4-ish)

Warhammer Elves started out as pretty close to DnD Elves. High Elf / Wood Elf / Dark Elf triad is the exact same in many of the DnD settings as well. Warhammer Fantasy has fleshed out itself more over the decades but the core concept of "one group of pointy ears is all high and mighty snob bunch, the other live in the woods and the third are sneaky beaky backstabbers" was not created by Warhammer.

 

[Arthor Thomarius]

I am a shameless elf-lover, so I tend to prefer depictions of them as inherently superior beings, anywhere on the continuum from vaguely sinister diminutive fey creatures to "humans but with pointy ears and immortal lives spent making themselves ten times stronger and smarter than you can ever hope to be."

I feel like such elves would inevitably create a scenario 2 or 4, depending on the competence of the elven leaders and the aggressiveness of the humans.
Either the humans would conquer the elves via attrition or the elves would subjugate the humans via subversion.
Assuming neither side has slave magic.

 

[Ebanu8]

I would go for scenario 4, especially since long-lived Elves would go for long-term manipulation to eventually gain control of their allies.

 

[Arthor Thomarius]

I would go for scenario 4, especially since long-lived Elves would go for long-term manipulation to eventually gain control of their allies.

Scenario four is the most likely if the elves are not completely incompetent and the humans have no special slave magic.
If the elves are incompetent and anger the humans so much that they turn conquering the elven kingdoms into a multigenerational crusade, then it is a toss up between one and two.
I usually assume that humans have some sort of magic which can force non-humans to submit and dutifully serve their owners.
If elves are the ones with access to slave magic and humans do not, then it is scenario three.

 

[Ebanu8]

Scenario four is the most likely if the elves are not completely incompetent and the humans have no special slave magic.
If the elves are incompetent and anger the humans so much that they turn conquering the elven kingdoms into a multigenerational crusade, then it is a toss up between one and two.
I usually assume that humans have some sort of magic which can force non-humans to submit and dutifully serve their owners.
If elves are the ones with access to slave magic and humans do not, then it is scenario three.

Can't deny your points either, though I guess it depends on the setting's circumstances and so on.

 

[Arthor Thomarius]

Can't deny your points either, though I guess it depends on the setting's circumstances and so on.

Agreed. Circumstances are paramount. Elves can range drastically in their power relative of their human counterparts.
IMHO the most important factors include, but are not limited to...
Relative birth rates, the differences in magical prowess, the intelligence of the elven rulers, the nature of hybrid offspring, and the presence and distribution of slave magics.
It goes without saying that if humans have slave magic and elves do not, then scenarios 1 or 2 will be the outcome with scenario four being an outside possibility
If elves have slave magic and humans do not, then scenario three would be the outcome.
If both elves and humans have slave magic, then the other factors become more decisive.

Do you think that people prefer their fantasy with or without enchantments and binding spells that force obedience and compel submission from slaves towards their masters?

 

[Ebanu8]

Do you think that people prefer their fantasy with or without enchantments and binding spells that force obedience and compel submission from slaves towards their masters?

I think they might lean both ways, because being able to compel submission without needing enchantments and spells is a reward on its own.

 

[Arthor Thomarius]

I think they might lean both ways, because being able to compel submission without needing enchantments and spells is a reward on its own.

On the micro level, dealing with a case by case basis, breaking and taming monsters can make for good drama.
But from macro level dealing with world building, a setting where slave rebellion is impossible and dutiful compliance to owners makes for an interesting societal structure.

 

[Ebanu8]

But from macro level dealing with world building, a setting where slave rebellion is impossible and dutiful compliance to owners makes for an interesting societal structure.

How do you believe so? Is it in how they ensure compliance for a stable kingdom?

 

[Arthor Thomarius]

How do you believe so? Is it in how they ensure compliance for a stable kingdom?

Exactly. Slave societies like Sparta, Rome, and Dixie had to devote huge amounts of resources for preventing slaves from running away or rebelling. Slavery died out in large part because the costs of maintaining security over a hostile population is more than the price point of competitive wages.

If your slaves are forced into submission by magic and the masters live without fear of their bonded chattel, then it is going to drastically change how people view the institution of slavery.

Depending on the system, slave magic might create a feedback loop that reinforces the demand for domesticated monsters.