Likes to views ratio
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Gatsha
Really Experienced
I won't pretend I'm not paying attention to it, but the relationship is ultimately unreliable. For a while I was tracking something like 1 like in 10 views being a comfortable point, and only in the first day of posting, but I discovered that even that fuzzy metric only tracked as a Stat on particular stories and not others.
Ultimately, at least for people like me where 10 likes on a chapter would be "a lot", I think the ability to grab a like is going to come down to the specific liking habits of the handful of people reading the story. If people are generous enough to hit that button and give me my serotonin, I appreciate it; if they aren't, I don't automatically assume I wrote a stinker.
I don't have any intention of modifying my writing to chase that metric in any way.
Ultimately, at least for people like me where 10 likes on a chapter would be "a lot", I think the ability to grab a like is going to come down to the specific liking habits of the handful of people reading the story. If people are generous enough to hit that button and give me my serotonin, I appreciate it; if they aren't, I don't automatically assume I wrote a stinker.
I don't have any intention of modifying my writing to chase that metric in any way.
I definitely see that early chapters in a story will almost always have more likes than later chapters, making it look like your quality of writing is going down over time. I don’t think that is the case though and probably the result of older chapters just having more time to gather likes. Plus every time you add a chapter your story shows up on the front page and new readers are always going to start on the first chapter, they might not make it to the latest installment.
Gambio
CHYOA Guru
I average roughly one like per 100 views
Ratio does improve with the later chapters of as tory as only the ones are keep reading who are actually interested.
I always wonder if like begging would help, since I believe a decent percentage of readers are genuinly not aware that their likes are very sought after.
But so far I managed to resist the temptation.
Ratio does improve with the later chapters of as tory as only the ones are keep reading who are actually interested.
I always wonder if like begging would help, since I believe a decent percentage of readers are genuinly not aware that their likes are very sought after.
But so far I managed to resist the temptation.
Dissonant Soundtrack
Really Really Experienced
I sometimes wonder if people don't want to like older chapters. I know that it can be considered weird to like old things on social media and I'm curious if that mentality carries over.
TheLowKing
Really Really Experienced
Don't beg; thank.
Early chapters get more likes and more views, but like Gambio said, people who stick with it until later chapters are more likely to like (in both senses of the word).
Looking at my most recent story, the first chapter has only 2 likes per 1000 views, but it goes all the way to 40ish near the end. Recently published chapters get more likes too. I've seen the numbers go over 100 likes per 1000 views in the first few hours after publishing a new chapter, though it always goes down in the days and weeks after.
Holy crap, I never thought to look but one random chapter of mine (the first TAM one, so not an intro chapter for a whole story) has a ration of 1 like per 202 views. Ouch.
Hmm, the last chapter in that branch has a ratio of 1 like for every 29 views. So yeah, like anything views trend down the deeper into a story you go. So do likes, but probably not at the same rate.
Hmm, the last chapter in that branch has a ratio of 1 like for every 29 views. So yeah, like anything views trend down the deeper into a story you go. So do likes, but probably not at the same rate.
SeriousBrainDamage
Really Really Experienced
You can flip the question and see it the other way around: people can like your chapter only once, but they can come back and re-read it as many times as they want, hence, there are so many views and so few likes.
CurvyLinesEverywhere
Really Experienced
My rule of thumb for social media and the internet in general is 1% converstion rate is pretty normal. So, take your views, divide by 100, and if your likes are a little higher than that, you're doing above average. If they're a little lower than that you're doing below average. My own stories are currently sitting at ~1.8% and ~0.8%.
1 in 25 would be a 4% conversion rate. By my standards, that's pretty darned impressive.
That said, asking us what we think is probably the wrong way to go about it. You can easily click on any story you want and see the raw numbers. Small number divided by big number = that story or chapter's likes-to-views ratio.
Just for fun, here's the top 10 stories, accurate as of the date on this post, (with no disregarding of certain pages or other massaging, since I was just grabbing the overall numbers from the About section):
1. The Gamer, Chyoa edition. by TheDespaxas
Erotic spin off of the manwha: The Gamer.
501,899 Likes ÷ 28,173,369 Views = 0.01781466 = ~1.78%
2. The Affection Multiplier by Fantasy
Because sometimes you need to even the odds.
161,743 Likes ÷ 11,101,179 Views = 0.014569894 = ~1.46%
3. Sexual Privilege by SanctifiedVillified
Freeuse for One
119,380 Likes ÷ 21,859,885 Views = 0.005461145 = ~0.54%
4. The Rulebook by ashes2ashes
You find a Rulebook that lets you rewrite the rules any organization has to follow
77,335 Likes ÷ 29,093,912 Views = 0.002658116 = ~0.26%
5. A New World! Your Party of Hopeless Hotties by Fiftyfiftyfifty
(Game) After being transported to a fantasy land, you try to assemble a normal party of girls, but things are never that simple.
67,853 Likes ÷ 6,267,585 Views = 0.01082602 = ~1.08%
6. Written Ownership by LLation
Claim anything or anyone
64,188 Likes ÷ 9,306,594 Views = 0.006897045 = ~0.68%
7. 48 Hours As A Girl by generaljiggler
*Now Public*
61,967 Likes ÷ 26,789,675 Views = 0.002313093 = ~0.23%
8. Game Monster by Cantalope
From Creep to Boss
54,029 Likes* ÷ 15,729,487 Views = 0.003434886 = ~0.34%
9. Lois Lane's Night Out by exxxidor456
Lois goes undercover and gets more than she bargained for...
54,029 Likes* ÷ 8,265,615 Views = 0.006536598 = ~0.65%
10.Normality by Murakami
Don't mind the fucking, nothing to see here
52,238 Likes ÷ 13,450,982 Views = 0.003883583 = ~0.38%
* Notice that #8 and #9 both had exactly the same number of likes when I copy-pasted them, even though they have vastly different numbers of views. I'm pretty sure we can't learn anything from this fact, it's just a neat little coincidence.
A much more interesting thing to consider is what causes views and likes to jump suddenly in the middle of your story? Views and likes tend to taper off over time naturally as readers churn out of the read partway through, so any chapter that bucks this trend is worth examining. You (or whoever wrote it) did something right, there. In Debuachery is Underrated, my most-liked story, this occasionally happens during climaxes in narrative and storytelling, not sex scenes. I haven't seen a similar occurance so far in my less popular story, which is a more conventional (for this site) aggression/intensity-driven borderline NC sex and video-game combat romp.
1 in 25 would be a 4% conversion rate. By my standards, that's pretty darned impressive.
That said, asking us what we think is probably the wrong way to go about it. You can easily click on any story you want and see the raw numbers. Small number divided by big number = that story or chapter's likes-to-views ratio.
Just for fun, here's the top 10 stories, accurate as of the date on this post, (with no disregarding of certain pages or other massaging, since I was just grabbing the overall numbers from the About section):
1. The Gamer, Chyoa edition. by TheDespaxas
Erotic spin off of the manwha: The Gamer.
501,899 Likes ÷ 28,173,369 Views = 0.01781466 = ~1.78%
2. The Affection Multiplier by Fantasy
Because sometimes you need to even the odds.
161,743 Likes ÷ 11,101,179 Views = 0.014569894 = ~1.46%
3. Sexual Privilege by SanctifiedVillified
Freeuse for One
119,380 Likes ÷ 21,859,885 Views = 0.005461145 = ~0.54%
4. The Rulebook by ashes2ashes
You find a Rulebook that lets you rewrite the rules any organization has to follow
77,335 Likes ÷ 29,093,912 Views = 0.002658116 = ~0.26%
5. A New World! Your Party of Hopeless Hotties by Fiftyfiftyfifty
(Game) After being transported to a fantasy land, you try to assemble a normal party of girls, but things are never that simple.
67,853 Likes ÷ 6,267,585 Views = 0.01082602 = ~1.08%
6. Written Ownership by LLation
Claim anything or anyone
64,188 Likes ÷ 9,306,594 Views = 0.006897045 = ~0.68%
7. 48 Hours As A Girl by generaljiggler
*Now Public*
61,967 Likes ÷ 26,789,675 Views = 0.002313093 = ~0.23%
8. Game Monster by Cantalope
From Creep to Boss
54,029 Likes* ÷ 15,729,487 Views = 0.003434886 = ~0.34%
9. Lois Lane's Night Out by exxxidor456
Lois goes undercover and gets more than she bargained for...
54,029 Likes* ÷ 8,265,615 Views = 0.006536598 = ~0.65%
10.Normality by Murakami
Don't mind the fucking, nothing to see here
52,238 Likes ÷ 13,450,982 Views = 0.003883583 = ~0.38%
* Notice that #8 and #9 both had exactly the same number of likes when I copy-pasted them, even though they have vastly different numbers of views. I'm pretty sure we can't learn anything from this fact, it's just a neat little coincidence.
A much more interesting thing to consider is what causes views and likes to jump suddenly in the middle of your story? Views and likes tend to taper off over time naturally as readers churn out of the read partway through, so any chapter that bucks this trend is worth examining. You (or whoever wrote it) did something right, there. In Debuachery is Underrated, my most-liked story, this occasionally happens during climaxes in narrative and storytelling, not sex scenes. I haven't seen a similar occurance so far in my less popular story, which is a more conventional (for this site) aggression/intensity-driven borderline NC sex and video-game combat romp.
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JohnTitor45
Experienced
So a climax in narrative could make people like stories more? Any idea what the top ten did right?
CurvyLinesEverywhere
Really Experienced
In terms of raw views, you mean? (Only the top 2 have a ratio above 1%.) Yeah, obviously. They all have over a thousand chapters. Even if we assume ~2 chapters per update, that's still 500 trips to the front page!
How do you make a story with a thousand chapters? Write, fool! But there are some things you can do to speed up the process:
- Make your story public, so other authors can contribute to it.
- Give it an accessible, nigh-ubiquitous premise. Bury off-putting kinks down clearly labeled paths. (Note: What's off-putting is subjective!)
- Give it a straightforward title that communicates the premise/main appeal
- Foreshadow/signpost avatar/content/kinks well in your branch names so readers can find what they're looking for.
- Post at least one chapter every day, even if you're not feeling it. ("Inspiration" is an illusion! If a hack can write every day, you can write every day BETTER than that!)
- And I wouldn't normally consider this next bit advice, but since you're John Fucking Titor:
- Start in the past!
- Write it yourself, or use strict writing guidelines and don't verify chapters that don't adhere to them
- The central premise should be story-based, not kink/wish-fulfillment-based
- Give it a title that means something related to your central premise
- Branches, if they exist at all, are about player choices or gameplay, not experience customization
- Post at least one chapter every day. It's nice to know some things never change. The more you write, the better you become at writing.
Luckily, "post everyday" is the most powerful technique, in both methods.
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CurvyLinesEverywhere
Really Experienced
As for the top 2, just check the Map, look for a spike in Likes that deviates from the curve, then click the chapter and see what's there. I didn't go very deep, but here are some quick highlights:
1. The Gamer, Chyoa edition MAP First Kiss, RPG stats, The moment the reader is informed they leveled up
2. The Affection Multiplier MAP Villain denounments, tender relationship-defining moments, one sex scene, but it was framed as the first time with your GF after building the relationship like, 20 chapters.
Basically all things I used in Debauchery is Underrated. Also, the writing is just really solid, in general, in both. The Gamer also has some very nice formatting on the character sheet stuff.
Do not try to learn what to write from these stories. Instead, learn how to write using general writing tutorials online. Start by learning about story structure. Try Googling short story tutorials first, then apply what you learn by writing a couple short, maybe 20-40 chapter stories. That'll take you about a month per story. Explore different themes and premises.
Also, occasionally re-read your older pages, and if you find yourself hating your old work, make some tweaks to improve or correct it.
When you start to feel comfortable, look up how to write a novel, and try to make a story a couple hundred chapters long. This is harder, and requires more planning to pull off. Keep starting new stories, with the goal of going 100 pages further every time. (Be sure and wrap up the action of your old story first. An intuitive way to do this is to state what your MC wants up front at the start of their path, the moment they enter the story, and let them get what they want when it's time to end an arc. When you want to add more pages, add a line explaining how getting that thing they wanted didn't *really* solve their problems. In this way, you can keep extending your old stories like a soap opera. (Alternatively, end on a cliffhanger for more reader engagement!))
When you get a story to 1000 pages, you should be starting to become pretty seasoned, and also you will have a backlog of stories you can switch to whenever you're burned out on the premise of your current story.
If you get to 1000 pages, and you're still not happy with your progress, then something's wrong somewhere. We'll dig deeper when that day comes.
Good luck! Always write more, and always make it something you're excited about!
1. The Gamer, Chyoa edition MAP First Kiss, RPG stats, The moment the reader is informed they leveled up
2. The Affection Multiplier MAP Villain denounments, tender relationship-defining moments, one sex scene, but it was framed as the first time with your GF after building the relationship like, 20 chapters.
Basically all things I used in Debauchery is Underrated. Also, the writing is just really solid, in general, in both. The Gamer also has some very nice formatting on the character sheet stuff.
Do not try to learn what to write from these stories. Instead, learn how to write using general writing tutorials online. Start by learning about story structure. Try Googling short story tutorials first, then apply what you learn by writing a couple short, maybe 20-40 chapter stories. That'll take you about a month per story. Explore different themes and premises.
Also, occasionally re-read your older pages, and if you find yourself hating your old work, make some tweaks to improve or correct it.
When you start to feel comfortable, look up how to write a novel, and try to make a story a couple hundred chapters long. This is harder, and requires more planning to pull off. Keep starting new stories, with the goal of going 100 pages further every time. (Be sure and wrap up the action of your old story first. An intuitive way to do this is to state what your MC wants up front at the start of their path, the moment they enter the story, and let them get what they want when it's time to end an arc. When you want to add more pages, add a line explaining how getting that thing they wanted didn't *really* solve their problems. In this way, you can keep extending your old stories like a soap opera. (Alternatively, end on a cliffhanger for more reader engagement!))
When you get a story to 1000 pages, you should be starting to become pretty seasoned, and also you will have a backlog of stories you can switch to whenever you're burned out on the premise of your current story.
If you get to 1000 pages, and you're still not happy with your progress, then something's wrong somewhere. We'll dig deeper when that day comes.
Good luck!
Always write more, and always make it something you're excited about!
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JohnTitor45
Experienced
In terms of raw views, you mean? (Only the top 2 have a ratio above 1%.) Yeah, obviously. They all have over a thousand chapters. Even if we assume 2 chapters per day, that's still 500 trips to the front page!
How do you make a story with a thousand chapters? Write, fool! But there are some things you can do to speed up the process:
Likes-to-Views ratio is all about Quality. Raw likes is all about Quantity. Which you favor depends on your goals. Strive to do both. Focusing too much on one hurts the other, because look at how you write focused, coherent stories:
- Make your story public, so other authors can contribute to it.
- Give it an accessible, nigh-ubiquitous premise. Bury off-putting kinks down clearly labeled paths. (Note: What's off-putting is subjective!)
- Give it a straightforward title that communicates the premise/main appeal
- Foreshadow/signpost avatar/content/kinks well in your branch names so readers can find what they're looking for.
- Post at least one chapter every day, even if you're not feeling it. ("Inspiration" is an illusion! If a hack can write every day, you can write every day BETTER than that!)
- And I wouldn't normally consider this next bit advice, but since you're John Fucking Titor:
- Start in the past!
It's basically the exact opposite of how you min-max your story for mass audiences.
- Write it yourself, or use strict writing guidelines and don't verify chapters that don't adhere to them
- The central premise should be story-based, not kink/wish-fulfillment-based
- Give it a title that means something related to your central premise
- Branches, if they exist at all, are about player choices or gameplay, not experience customization
- Post at least one chapter every day. It's nice to know some things never change. The more you write, the better you become at writing.
Luckily, "post everyday" is the most powerful technique, in both methods.
Well, my first story is based on Persona and the Kamoshida arc alone is over 50 pages so I can imagine that even if I only do that, I'd still have almost 1000 chapters.
I'm not comfortable making a story public, though they are moderated.
Is there anything that most people find off-putting?
I'm sorry, could you please elaborate on that.
I'm actually not the original John Titor from 2000, it was just a codename I was given.
insertnamehere
Really Really Experienced
If you're aiming to consider likes while controlling for a story's opportunities to gain likes - visibility, update frequency, age, etc. - the best metric is probably likes per chapter, ignoring link chapters.
This is a very strong analysis. I would almost never in good faith recommend making a story public, but it is technically the best strategy if you just want attention. I find that successful stories rope readers in by following the first philosophy you've given, and then, perhaps when the author starts to care more about the quality and depth of their writing, or perhaps by plan, they transition to a more interesting, cohesive story. After all, many large collaborative stories still have the informal concept of users "owning" branches, but only after a certain depth, beyond which the story tends to mature.How do you make a story with a thousand chapters? Write, fool! But there are some things you can do to speed up the process:
Likes-to-Views ratio is all about Quality. Raw likes is all about Quantity. Which you favor depends on your goals. Strive to do both. Focusing too much on one hurts the other, because look at how you write focused, coherent stories:
- Make your story public, so other authors can contribute to it.
- Give it an accessible, nigh-ubiquitous premise. Bury off-putting kinks down clearly labeled paths. (Note: What's off-putting is subjective!)
- Give it a straightforward title that communicates the premise/main appeal
- Foreshadow/signpost avatar/content/kinks well in your branch names so readers can find what they're looking for.
- Post at least one chapter every day, even if you're not feeling it. ("Inspiration" is an illusion! If a hack can write every day, you can write every day BETTER than that!)
- And I wouldn't normally consider this next bit advice, but since you're John Fucking Titor:
- Start in the past!
It's basically the exact opposite of how you min-max your story for mass audiences.
- Write it yourself, or use strict writing guidelines and don't verify chapters that don't adhere to them
- The central premise should be story-based, not kink/wish-fulfillment-based
- Give it a title that means something related to your central premise
- Branches, if they exist at all, are about player choices or gameplay, not experience customization
- Post at least one chapter every day. It's nice to know some things never change. The more you write, the better you become at writing.
CurvyLinesEverywhere
Really Experienced
Like I said, it's subjective. Some users don't like incest content. Some users don't like what they perceive as gay content. Some users don't like NC. Breeding, Vore, Rimming, Character Deaths, that annoying meme about the weak link in the superhero movie franchise, pretty much any human experience can be fetishized, and pretty much any fetish has some percentage of users who are trying their best to avoid it.
That said, this is a paradox, because in aggregate, users tend to reward the kinkiest, most transgressive, most extreme content feasible on the platform, with views, if only because it stands out and grabs attention.
(I like to describe such content as "high-intensity," because most of the other terms frequently used to describe it ("dirtiest," "raunchiest," worst,") are less technically accurate, carry a judgemental tone, or are just plain emotionally loaded by the English-speakers who came before me. I also prefer the word "niche" instead of "kink" or "fetish" when talking about content for the same reason. It describes the role your writing plays in a market or writing ecosystem, not a sexual preference (or, indeed, requirement, if we go by the medical definition of the word fetish rather than its colloquial use as a synonym for kink) ascribed to the author or reader.)
You can try skimming the forums for threads with titles like "Why are there so many (niche I don't like) stories these days!?" But those are almost always some vocal minority complaining about what they perceive as a rising trend, which they imagine is somehow choking out their own preferred content, because they view writing as a zero-sum game rather than as a creative endeavor in which more spam in their niche to wade through isn't necessarily better, for them, as readers.
My advice is not to pay attention to this when deciding what to write. If you chase a trend you're not into, you'll write a half-assed version of a popular thing. (High Views, low Likes.) If you write something you like even though the niche isn't popular, you'll attract a small but incredibly loyal following that's starved for content in that niche and appreciates when somebody who's into it writes about it with passion and authenticity. (Low Views, high Ratio.) I only mentioned it because you can enjoy the best of both worlds by writing about niches you personally find sexy and/or appealing, regardless of how off-putting they may or may not be, and clearly labeling your chapters so readers can dodge the content they're not into. (Ideally in Chapter names, which are visible before the click, not just content Tags, which become visible afterwards.)
Of course, this design philosophy also implies the necessity of a nice safe "vanilla" path as a fallback, but since your Avatar is a Stein's Gate reference, I figured you know a thing or two about Best Girls.
Sure thing! Here are some made-up examples of relatively bad names for Chapter titles. Note that each title is from a different type of story, and a different point in said story. Normally, you'd expect to see a group of similar links at any given point in a story, rather than a mishmash of choices like these:
Emma Anderson
Hide in the closet.
Get a better view from the rooftop.
Here are the same hypothetical chapter names, altered to hint at what fantasy the reader can indulge in by clicking them:
Emma, the petite British-American 18 year-old girl next door you've known since you were kids
Hide in the closet.(Rape, Breeding, Bad End)
Risk getting a better view from the rooftop, even though you know this is Catwoman's turf.
Essentially, use some combination of descriptive language, in-title tags, or narrative foreshadowing, to indicate to the player what they can expect if they open this pandora's box. Note that these changes necessarily reduce reader surprise. This is by design. They should be used to help the reader find what they want in a particularly Wide story, not to spoil a Deep, linear story that relies on building tension or suspense. (That said, if you happened to find your mouth watering slightly when you realized the implications of one of those revised titles? That's anticipation. Arguably, just as valuable in reader retention as surprise. And there's no reason you can't do both, just make the surprises unrelated to niche.)
Now that you know how these techniques can be used, it's up to you as a writer to decide if or when it is a good idea to use them.
Given by whom!? See, this is what I'm talking about. You can't even deny the joke without additional lore spilling out of your mouth. I'll stop comparing you to 2000's John Titor when you stop earning it!
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JohnTitor45
Experienced
I'm not sure how breeding would work on this site. I mean you'd have to have an 18 year time skip every time you do it. Doesn't seem like a practical fetish.
Vore is that one about eating people?
No idea what NC or rimming are.
I guess I best off do my own thing and not think too hard what everybody thinks. It's that I can't please everyone.
Should I write down fetishes in the description of a branch? For example,
Persona 3
{first_name} and {female_name} {last_name}
This story contains incest.
Maybe I should change the titles of my characters branches from {first_name} {last_name} to P1/2/3/4/5 Protagonist so readers know who I'm referring to.
I probably won't state something is a bad end in the chapter title for spoiler reasons since my story is mostly linear.
Example,
Have Ann try to take Kamoshida's crown.(Bad End)
The bad endings of Persona 5 where you run out of time don't seem practical for a written format. I think I'll change them to being the consequence to losing to a boss after sending the call since it only lasts a day and can only be used once, meaning that you fail, there's simply nothing you can do about your situation anymore.
It was given by you twenty five years from now. I should point out the future I'm from is quite different to what the original described.
CurvyLinesEverywhere
Really Experienced
Sorry. NC is an abbreviation for Non-consent. I encourage you to do your own exploration when it comes to niches, since there are so many of them. Luckily, the Tags page makes it easy.
Correct.
That's one option, sure. These are tools you can use, not best-practices to follow. If you think your audience will already be familiar with Persona 3, you can and should use any names, convention or other shorthand used in that game, yes. I like to put these hints in the text of the link itself because it's impossible for the reader to ignore, skip past, or overlook.
They're clunky and on-the-nose, and the (Parenthesis Tags) version harms aesthetics a little bit. But the boost in player agency is so strong, there are entire communities of people who mod these hints into existing Interactive Fiction games. That's how useful they are, from a game design perspective.
No reason you can't do both. Your call. You can always change it later, just make sure you update all the links in all the pages so your link conventions are consistent within your story, or at least within an author branch.
That's entirely your prerogative as author.
In fact, I'd argue that knowing why you're doing it is more important than what you do. My examples were chosen to be the most extreme, specific and diverse examples I could think of, at the time.There are no wrong answers. Only inconsistent answering schemes.
Ugh. Future Me.
I hate that guy. Thinks he's so high and mighty just because he has all the cool toys and an out-of-date answer key...
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CurvyLinesEverywhere
Really Experienced
I just arrived at a different interpretation of what you're asking, here. If your story involves multiple Persona Protagoni interacting with each other, I'd probably offer the reader variables for each, as such:
{P1_first_name} {P1_last_name}
{P2_first_name} {P2_last_name}
{P3_first_name} {P3_last_name}
...etc.